(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 37: Saving the Cocktail Dresses for Court

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, livinginthelight said:

I didn't believe this was real but did some research. 😮 It's true! This was a real slogan! 🤣 Sorry for doubting you @CyborgKin!

Yep. Although “dick” was already slang for penis back then, I don’t think most people’s minds moved to “penis” when they heard the nickname.  And although oral sex was definitely known and practiced widely, it was just not the sort of thing polite people thought about.😉

 

[AussieKrissy]

1 hour ago, Kjaerringa said:

@AussieKrissy....is it possible the girl in the goldenrod dress is the bride? She is standing next to somebody wearing blue trousers. As far as MOH, there is one person wearing a sequined rose dress. I think she may be the MOH....everyone else appears to be wearing the same style rose dress, without any bling. which leaves goldenrod dress and blue pants as the bridal pair?

the bride is in white I posted a pic with the bridal party but it is possible that she had two dresses???!!!!

my impression is that is a pic just with the groom and bridesmaids odd for a fundie wedding but not that weird for a non fundie especially with his sister and or mutual friends in the bridesmaid parrty

[Mommy22alyns]

I couldn't find the right place to put it, I don't often post, but... is Jim Bob fucking insane??? What the actual HELL is he thinking, actually RUNNING FOR OFFICE while his pedo son is actively in court proceedings?!?!?! I guess his ego is bigger than his brain?

[patsymae]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

Yep. Although “dick” was already slang for penis back then, I don’t think most people’s minds moved to “penis” when they heard the nickname.  And although oral sex was definitely known and practiced widely, it was just not the sort of thing polite people thought about.😉

 

Yeah, alas I'm old enough to remember that era. It was not what it says today. Gotta love it though

[ToriAmos]

1 hour ago, Mommy22alyns said:

I couldn't find the right place to put it, I don't often post, but... is Jim Bob fucking insane??? What the actual HELL is he thinking, actually RUNNING FOR OFFICE while his pedo son is actively in court proceedings?!?!?! I guess his ego is bigger than his brain?

I know, it's mind-boggling isn't it? But like so many hard-righters in the US since Trump, they just seem to live in their own world with their own 'news' networks spewing back what they want to hear. 

Maybe he truly, truly believes that it's a liberal frame job, so he has to up the fight. But i don't understand a lot about US politics and religion. I feel so sorry for normal Americans. I mean, we have a crappy right-wing party here in Australia, but the Republicans are just in a whole different league of reality-defiance.

[Mama Mia]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Yep. Although “dick” was already slang for penis back then, I don’t think most people’s minds moved to “penis” when they heard the nickname.  And although oral sex was definitely known and practiced widely, it was just not the sort of thing polite people thought about.😉

 

I was in 4th grade at the time - absolutely Dick was widely used slang for penis. Also, I was a kid, but there was certainly enough cultural background noise going on to assume that it wasn’t exactly a prim and proper era of time. I’d guess many, many, many teens and adults were laughing hard when they saw that ad. 

 

11 minutes ago, ToriAmos said:

I know, it's mind-boggling isn't it? But like so many hard-righters in the US since Trump, they just seem to live in their own world with their own 'news' networks spewing back what they want to hear. 

Maybe he truly, truly believes that it's a liberal frame job, so he has to up the fight. But i don't understand a lot about US politics and religion. I feel so sorry for normal Americans. I mean, we have a crappy right-wing party here in Australia, but the Republicans are just in a whole different league of reality-defiance.

The way I’m reading JB’s campaign materials - he’s running not so much on the evil liberal media and fake news framing his son — more on that they are trying to cancel HIM based on his sons “problems” . It’s really subtle — but I kinda think he’s trying to actually capitalize on Josh being tried as a way to show that his family has troubles and problems and he shouldn’t be persecuted for it. He’s just a hard working conservative dad who did his best, probably made some mistakes, but he shouldn’t be held responsible for his deviant kid. And only the horrible commies would try sanction his family because of it. He’s not mentioning Josh - at all- but it’s heavily implied. That’s how I’m interpreting  it at least. 

[marmalade]

2 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

the bride is in white I posted a pic with the bridal party but it is possible that she had two dresses???!!!!

my impression is that is a pic just with the groom and bridesmaids odd for a fundie wedding but not that weird for a non fundie especially with his sister and or mutual friends in the bridesmaid parrty

Not two dresses. Hannah is wearing her wedding gown at the reception. 

[AprilQuilt]

wow, David Keller got all the handsome genes in his family didn't he? And Hannah looks gorgeous - glamorous, modern, AND MODEST. Those shots really show up what a dogs dinner the Nurptials were. 

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

18 hours ago, Idlewild said:

Maybe Anna knew there would be interest in the wedding and for once took the privacy and welfare of her children seriously and declined them being part of the wedding party. It sucks for her daughter if that’s so as she might have enjoyed being a bridesmaid for her uncle, but that’s down to the terrible parenting of JB and Josh.

I don’t believe Anna, at present, is capable of doing such a thing. I believe she is following the orders of council/a pr firm/Jim Boob to keep herself and her children out of the public eye during trial to draw less attention to Josh.

[justmy2cents]

5 hours ago, ToriAmos said:

Maybe he truly, truly believes that it's a liberal frame job,

Why do they believe that Liberals would target Josh specifically? What’s so important about him? Wouldn’t they choose someone more prominent to target? I don’t get their logic. 
 

[Alisamer]

On 11/20/2021 at 5:53 PM, AussieKrissy said:

Stupid then it should be Ev 

and why be rude. She would have had it her whole life so go and snap at your parents for being twits. 
accept that your name is read by 99 percent of the population one way so be resigned and polite. People are idjits. 

On 11/20/2021 at 5:17 PM, AprilQuilt said:

This is the French pronunciation.

"Ev" is definitely the French pronunciation. I am not cool with whoever being rude about the mispronunciation unless it was ongoing, but there's nothing stupid about using the French pronunciation. (Unless it's done solely to be pretentious, IMO). At one previous job we had a French exchange student/intern whose name was Marie-Eve "Mari-ev" was how it was pronounced, slight emphasis on the first syllable of Marie. 

On 11/20/2021 at 5:28 PM, EmCatlyn said:

Re: Meaning of Madyson.

Most names have more than one possible meaning because names with one meaning or set of associations get merged with other names that sound the same. In addition, the way names or appellations are turned into family names and back again into personal names can add another possible confusion. (An appellation is a name by which a person is known—Phillip the Handsome. Juana the Mad. Jack the Ripper. Josh the Pest.)

I've been doing some geneology research and in one line I've gotten back far enough to find appellations like "the diseased", "the speckled", and "the treacherous" LOL!

No matter how many meanings of "Madison" or "Madyson" we can find, though, in this case what it means to the world is "remember, my super-Christian dad cheated on my mom!" which is sad for the poor kid. 

 

On 11/20/2021 at 8:47 PM, AussieKrissy said:

  Hide contents

I really like the simplicity of her dress. It’s quite my taste though with a less fundie neckline lol. 

Look at that pants-wearing working woman there taking the photos! I wonder how many disapproving looks Mechele and JB sent her way? 

Also that dress is kind of Guinevere-esque, and the text above talks about how the wedding was "magical". I thought "magical" was a bad thing with fundies!

I think the dress is pretty, but I think the neckline is maybe a bit too high, and it's a bit plain. It looks like it's supposed to have a belt or sash or something. She is a beautiful girl though and wears it well. If it was me and I'd picked out a dress with that sort of style, I'd have gone full Guinevere cosplay!

[SassyPants]

Eve being Ev as a French pronunciation, great, if you live in  a French speaking country. However this situation is a clear example of how a person with an unusual (because 1970s San Francisco is not current day in terms of cultural awareness, Paris) name pronunciation is fully exasperated at yet another person misspeaking their name, and how that exasperation is received. I think with names it’s best to apply the KISS principle. In the US, 9/10 people are going to pronounce Eve as Eve, not Ev. Just like in Spanish speaking countries AVA is pronounced EVA - 

[Themanda Duggar]

11 hours ago, Mommy22alyns said:

I couldn't find the right place to put it, I don't often post, but... is Jim Bob fucking insane??? What the actual HELL is he thinking, actually RUNNING FOR OFFICE while his pedo son is actively in court proceedings?!?!?! I guess his ego is bigger than his brain?

Jim Bob’s ego has always been bigger than his brain.  It’s a common affliction in men of his demographic.

I think he decided to run for office this time because he thought it would be an easy win.  It’s a special election- it was unanticipated, with a very short time for a campaign, and a limited time for other candidates to organize and run against him.  He probably figured he already had name recognition in the area, an advantage in his mind (if not in ours), and thinks of himself as highly respected.  I think he’s always wanted to be in office again, and a campaign as brief as this one will cost a lot less and take a lot less effort than one happening during a typical election cycle.

But I do think the biggest reason is just pure ego.  He truly believes that his rightful place in the world is in charge, and that he is actually deserving and worthy of the worship and veneration he receives at home.

He is a vile human, and I hope he gets squashed like a bug in this election.

[SassyPants]

I feel like I need to expound on the whole name thing. I’ve said it before. If a parent wants to give their child an usual name, particularly spelling, they should change their own name. Why? So that can use a name they love, and then they can live with the ramifications of having that name.

Why such strong feelings? I have the dreaded apostrophe in my last name. Now when I took this married name there were no computers, but now? Good God. So, Capital letter, apostrophe, capital letter. Can the system ever find such a name? No. Try this, try that…

At my niece’s wedding she even mentioned losing the apostrophe as a huge positive!

Also, my maiden name was just as bad, probably worse. No one other than people with that name can properly pronounce or spell it correctly -

[Expectopatronus]

@SassyPants I have zero problem with anyone using a different pronunciation but if she was rude to the prof, that’s definitely not cool. All she needed to say was « It’s Ev, my family’s French ». I taught a Sonny who pronounced it Sonya; no problem. She was polite about, I made a note on the list and we went on. My kid’s name get mispronounced 50% of the time. The only time it bothers me is when the person refuses to use the correct pronunciation. It’s a pretty common name so the wacky pronunciations we get are surprising. 

[Jesquire]

As far as confidentiality with non-licensed therapists...even if there is an expectation of confidentiality, that's not the same thing as privilege. Not all confidential info is privileged in a court of law. I wonder how the fed rules of evidence work for non-professionals acting like a therapist or clergy? The public policy argument could go either way...but I am guessing there are some parameters so that you can't just claim the privilege without some sort of official title/license etc.  Excuse my musings on this Monday.  Law school was a long long time ago and I am procrastinating at work!

[Expectopatronus]

@Jesquire I can sort of answer that. As a licensed therapist, my sessions are confidential but not privileged. By law, I have to report if suicidal, homicidal or child abuse content is shared AND my case notes can be subpoenaed. Granted Canadian law is different than US law but I would hope similar provisions exist. 

[Jesquire]

13 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

@Jesquire I can sort of answer that. As a licensed therapist, my sessions are confidential but not privileged. By law, I have to report if suicidal, homicidal or child abuse content is shared AND my case notes can be subpoenaed. Granted Canadian law is different than US law but I would hope similar provisions exist. 

Im wondering if Josiah has info on Josh that he shared with his Father-in-law?  Still hearsay though?

[theotherelise]

I mean, Dwain just serves as an accountability partner for christian dudes by talking to them on the phone as he mows lawns. Their ministry website is no longer active and they haven't posted on facebook for 6 years. I really doubt this is anything to do with his lawn mowing mentorship bs.

Something is weird with the Swanson-Duggars. This is all very odd.

[Howl]

16 hours ago, livinginthelight said:

I didn't believe this was real but did some research. 😮 It's true! This was a real slogan! 🤣 Sorry for doubting you @CyborgKin!

Also, "Vote for Nixon in '72, don't change Dicks in the middle of a screw."   How that man was elected and re-elected is a huge mystery to this day. 

[EmCatlyn]

Re: Dick and Lick in 1972.

I was in high school at the time, and while I was familiar with “dick” as slang for penis, no one teased the boys named “Dick” or joked about the name “Dick.”  It was like “John” for toilet— there was not the awkwardness attached to having the nickname “Dick” that there would be today.

I showed my husband (who was old enough to vote in 1972–I wasn’t) about the ad and he had never seen it and thought it was a joke.  However, we researched it, and it appears though it was never official campaign materials from the party, it was a big-selling novelty item and buttons with the logo were worn by men in many rallies.  Of course, the suggestion of oral sex was there, but it was subtle enough for the “innocent” not to notice or be offended.

My own thought is that in those days acknowledging the double-entendre enough to be offended would not have been proper.  It would have meant that the person offended was openly talking about oral sex—which “nice people” didn’t do.

[Antimony]

54 minutes ago, Expectopatronus said:

@SassyPants I have zero problem with anyone using a different pronunciation but if she was rude to the prof, that’s definitely not cool. All she needed to say was « It’s Ev, my family’s French ». I taught a Sonny who pronounced it Sonya; no problem. She was polite about, I made a note on the list and we went on. My kid’s name get mispronounced 50% of the time. The only time it bothers me is when the person refuses to use the correct pronunciation. It’s a pretty common name so the wacky pronunciations we get are surprising. 

I think unusual names are just a thing where it's death by a million papercuts. Nobody probably means to be rude about it, but I can imagine how hard it would be to sugarcoat my own annoyance at having to say, "It's Ev" for the 19,208th time. I was born with an unusual (Ukrainian) last name and while I ditched it at age 18 for a hyphenated last name (not much less confusing in many cases, honestly), it did get tiresome to repeatedly correct the pronunciation of my last name in a tiny middle school where everybody in town knew each other and we all went to the same school for all of K-12. My mother gave me permission, at 18, to change my first name to what we both wish she had gone with but at that point, it felt like I would have to learn a whole new name for myself so I was like, "No way." (As it turned out, I went immediately to college to get a nickname that stuck so hard that I answered to it faster than my given name anyway...). 

Name asides under the spoiler;

Spoiler

I posted about this on a Rod board but I'm kind of over-devoted to correct name pronunciation. I have this soft spoken student with a very non-American name and a lot of features you don't see in English (double consonants, like nn and double vowels like uu) and I couldn't find a "Pronounce a Name" recording for it. In fact, I couldn't find any use of that name anywhere else or a record of it in any Behind The Name type sites. It was like I guess if you had never seen the name Siobhan and there wasn't any online record of it, but the language of origin was even more removed from English than Irish is! Anyway, I ended up hunting down the language of origin via the students last name and then meeting with my friend, who is a Linguist, to break down the phenomes and the quirks of transliteration (like nn and uu) and she broke it down into the sounds for me, and now I can say it. I could have asked this student, and I did, but he is so soft spoken that he whispers the proper pronunciation to you and I felt like it would annoy him to ask a dozen times. Plus, some of the sounds in his name are ones I can't hear well because...well...English speaker. We're born with the ability to make every single phenome and hear all of them, and we lose it as we learn our first language so now I'm out here with no ability to produce a Spanish R or pronounce the letter that lives between R and L. (Ask me if I'm annoyed about certain Japanese -> English translations because of this...Spoiler: I am! Her name's Rain, not Lain! Aeris is clearly a name meant to look like Earth, so Aerith! Bleh! [Su replaces Th in some Japanese transliterations, but here the intention was clearly -th])

Madyson...I just can't care about a Y here. It's fine. It's becoming more normal, it's pretty easy to understand the intention of it. The connotation is by far the worst of it. My non-children (and none to be!) are blessed without my choice of names, because I love weird ones. Antigone is a favorite (but a terrible name to give a child, given that connotation, possibly actually worse than Madyson) and Heatherington is a (not usually but in my family) first name that I'd shorten to "Heath" in a heartbeat. English is probably ripe with unique name spellings because it's a language written an alphabet that wasn't made for it. Making y stand in for other vowels in ways that seem nonsensical well...that's just a long standing English tradition. If we're attacking weird spellings in the English speaking world, I would like to elect Colonel and Indict and Jeopardy and Wednesday to go on the great Cancellation Chopping Block of Nonsensical Spellings. 

Spoiler

While I'm here, I'm going to complain that Latin and Sanskrit are fairly closely related to the point that English words have Sanskrit etymology and I feel like I was lied to by my entire life for them not pointing this connection out and only pointing out English connections to Western-languages. I mean, words like Candy and Ignite (Igni/Agni) and Mugger and Opal and Shampoo have Sanskrit origins and I was out here being told all the virtues of French and Greek and Latin and Spanish and Sanskrit was totally brushed to the wayside in all that! It upsets me!

In closer Duggar news, I am fascinated by the idea that his Dwain fellow has mastered audio-quality enough to tele-counsel over headphones while mowing lawns. Forget lawns and weird therapy, what does he have to share with the world about dampening background noise? Has he invented the worlds quietest lawnmower? I cannot fathom. Some folks have wondered if Dwain is Josiah's alibi witness --Josiah couldn't be at the car lot because he was with him, maybe? Seems strange to testify on without asking Josiah though, but I recall that Josiah was one of the brothers that folk's felt Josh was pushing under the bus. At the point of the Josiah/Lauren marriage, I had stopped watching any of Counting On so I'm relying on all of you for Dwain knowledge. 

2 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Re: Dick and Lick in 1972.

I was in high school at the time, and while I was familiar with “dick” as slang for penis, no one teased the boys named “Dick” or joked about the name “Dick.”  It was like “John” for toilet— there was not the awkwardness attached to having the nickname “Dick” that there would be today.

I showed my husband (who was old enough to vote in 1972–I wasn’t) about the ad and he had never seen it and thought it was a joke.  However, we researched it, and it appears though it was never official campaign materials from the party, it was a big-selling novelty item and buttons with the logo were worn by men in many rallies.  Of course, the suggestion of oral sex was there, but it was subtle enough for the “innocent” not to notice or be offended.

My own thought is that in those days acknowledging the double-entendre enough to be offended would not have been proper.  It would have meant that the person offended was openly talking about oral sex—which “nice people” didn’t do.

This tracks with the cultural history of oral sex, for those interested. While obviously people have been innovating ways to do The Nasty since we invented it (Marquis de Sade comes to mind and the emergence of tentacle porn in the 1800s (yes, that old!)), there's some history that suggests that Americans didn't really talk about oral sex until the 1960's...maybe. This article on Vanity Fair also points out a (conincidental but topical) connection between Nixon and oral sex (under spoiler)

Spoiler

the recent and highly amusing documentary Inside Deep Throat shows—by re-creating the paradoxically Nixonian times that re-baptized Deep Throat to mean source rather than donor—how America grabbed the Olympic scepter of the blowjob and held on tight. In the film, there is the preserved figure of Helen Gurley Brown, den mother of Cosmo-style journalism for young ladies and author of Sex and the Single Girl, demonstrating her application technique as she tells us how she evolved from knowing nothing about oral sex to the realization that semen could be a terrific facial cream. (“It’s full of babies,” she squeals, unclear on the concept to the very last.) In closing, Dick Cavett declares that we have gone from looking at a marquee that read DEEP THROAT, and hoping it didn’t mean what we thought it did, to “kids who don’t even consider it sex.” This would leave us with only one problem. Why do we still say, of something boring or obnoxious, that “it sucks”? Ought that not be a compliment?

 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Expectopatronus said:

@SassyPants I have zero problem with anyone using a different pronunciation but if she was rude to the prof, that’s definitely not cool. All she needed to say was « It’s Ev, my family’s French ». I taught a Sonny who pronounced it Sonya; no problem. She was polite about, I made a note on the list and we went on. My kid’s name get mispronounced 50% of the time. The only time it bothers me is when the person refuses to use the correct pronunciation. It’s a pretty common name so the wacky pronunciations we get are surprising. 

She was rude and so was he, right back. I will say, that was her personality though, very blunt. Interestingly we were both part of a large business 101 class, but also members of a smaller nursing school cohort, so I knew her approach fairly well.

Edited November 22, 2021 by SassyPants

[church_of_dog]

I can only imagine that maybe Anna has long liked the name Madison (spelled howeverly) for a girl, but even she couldn't abide giving it to a girlbaby immediately after the Ashley-Madison scandal.  So she thinks waiting a few babies' worth of time has sufficiently separated the name from the scandal, notwithstanding the current legal situation, so she decided to go for it now.  Especially if she is at all aware of the possibility that this will be her last Duggar baby if he happens to get a longish sentence.

I think it's slightly tacky but not the horrible-association situation others seem to think.

[Flossie]

15 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Yep. Although “dick” was already slang for penis back then, I don’t think most people’s minds moved to “penis” when they heard the nickname.  And although oral sex was definitely known and practiced widely, it was just not the sort of thing polite people thought about.😉

 

I remember when words started to mean something different than before.

The first time was when I was riding the school bus sometime in the 1970's.  Some older boys had apparently learned about homosexuality and the term gay in relation to that.  I was reading a book, when one of them asked me "Are you gay?"  The way he said it and the way all his friends were hovering around snickering led me to the conclusion that this was some sort of joke that I was going to be the butt of.  So I said "No".  He got this fake expression of concern and asked me "Oh, you're not happy?"  With his stupid minions giggling behind him, I knew he was trying to lead me into a trap of some sort.  I said, "I'm fine.  I was happy to be reading my book, but I'm not gay."  And I put my book up and ignored them after that, but I did notice that they were obviously disappointed with my response.

A few years later it happened again.  But this time it was at home, and no one was trying to be an ass, it was just that a conventional parlance of a phrase now had new meaning:  My step-dad grew up in a different time, and getting a licking meant that you'd be hit with a razor strop.  He only had it happen to him once when he was growing up, but he said he pretty much deserved it (he and his brother thought they'd have some fun that immediately went wrong and almost got them killed).

So, growing up we'd sometimes have Dad say "Do you want me to lick your ass?".  We knew that meant getting a bad spanking, but he never gave us one.  It was more like a code for "You're going too far.  Do you really want to find out what kind of punishment you'll get if you keep this up?"  We'd settle right back down.

One day, I was about 12 and started getting mouthy.  Dad called me over and asked "Do you want me to lick your ass?"  Suddenly I had visions of men licking butts WITH THEIR TONGUE!  I knew Dad didn't mean that kind of licking, but now that I was older I'd heard of people doing weird things that were supposed to be sexually gratifying, even though I couldn't imagine ever wanting to do that.  I was horrified that my mind went there, but I couldn't help it.  I could feel my face burning with possibly the worst case of embarrassment ever, I'm surprised I didn't burst into flames right then and there.

I managed to say, "Uh, no."

As I stared at Dad in utter mortification, I saw his expression go from confusion to the realization of what I was thinking.  I think we were both wanting this horrific moment to be over.

He said "Good.  Go do something."

Dad, as far as I know, never offered to lick someones ass ever again.