Joe Biden 2: President Dark Brandon For The Win!

[Jana814]

Sorry double post. 

Edited June 30 by Jana814

[Smash!]

I just wish people voted democratic and stopped debating whether Biden is fit for office or not. In normal times this would be how the discussion goes. But in these times? I wouldn’t care if there‘s a bunny up for election instead of Biden as long as the MAGA fascist doesn’t get elected. 

[Shrubbery]

I think there is a difference between people who go „I worry about whether Biden‘s fit for office, therefore I’ll vote for Trump“ and people who go „I worry about whether Biden’s fit for office (although of course I’ll still vote for him because the alternative is Trump, and I know that Biden has a competent VP if needs be) because it might make undecided voters more likely to go for Trump.“

The first, obviously, are nutjobs, but I’m sorry to say that the second have a point that needs to be taken into account. Precisely because the alternative is Trump, I think all Dems, including Biden, need to do their best to keep him from winning, and if Biden’s health and age (even if right now he is still all there) are a risk factor, that needs to be figured in. 

[Jana814]

2 hours ago, Smash! said:

I just wish people voted democratic and stopped debating whether Biden is fit for office or not. In normal times this would be how the discussion goes. But in these times? I wouldn’t care if there‘s a bunny up for election instead of Biden as long as the MAGA fascist doesn’t get elected. 

I feel the same way. I don’t want Trump to be re-elected. I unfortunately know several people who are my age who only registered to vote when Trump ran the 1st time back in 2016. 

[Howl]

5 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I feel the same way. I don’t want Trump to be re-elected.

If it's any comfort,  some mega Conservative Trumpers in the extended family are now going to vote Biden as the "lesser of two evils".  I have a sense that there may be quite a few people making this decision.  

[Jana814]

6 minutes ago, Howl said:

If it's any comfort,  some mega Conservative Trumpers in the extended family are now going to vote Biden as the "lesser of two evils".  I have a sense that there may be quite a few people making this decision.  

I have heard people who did this for the election in 2020. 

[libgirl2]

We have to make sure that we do everything in our power to make sure that trump is not re-elected. Stop the handwringing over Biden at this point. Let's get the election done and see where we will go. I know it would be a hell of a lot better than what we could have. Bannon is calling for a MAGA army. I want Biden and the good people he has around him to be there if this happens. Otherwise, enjoy your last free 4th of July. 

[fraurosena]

Biden is old, yes. Is he always as energetic and spritely as one would like to see? No. But he is surrounded by an energetic and extremely competent team of people that form the whole of his administration. And that is what you are voting for, and should be voting for. Not just the President, the figurehead, but his administration.

If and when Biden decides to step back, I'd like to see Pete Buttigieg as his replacement. Calm, competent, and extremely eloquent, able to handle himself with poise and get his point across so there's no arguing against it. And he's young enough that he'll engage all demographics.

[Smee]

23 hours ago, Shrubbery said:

I think there is a difference between people who go „I worry about whether Biden‘s fit for office, therefore I’ll vote for Trump“ and people who go „I worry about whether Biden’s fit for office (although of course I’ll still vote for him because the alternative is Trump, and I know that Biden has a competent VP if needs be) because it might make undecided voters more likely to go for Trump.“

The first, obviously, are nutjobs, but I’m sorry to say that the second have a point that needs to be taken into account. Precisely because the alternative is Trump, I think all Dems, including Biden, need to do their best to keep him from winning, and if Biden’s health and age (even if right now he is still all there) are a risk factor, that needs to be figured in. 

THIS, so much this. The notion that people who are concerned about Biden's age and health and acuity should toss those concerns aside because of how awful Trump is kind of misses the point. I doubt there is a single person on this board, certainly not in this thread, who would consider voting for Trump instead. That's not why the discussion is happening.

Here in Aus if this scenario was playing out with our political leaders I'd be slightly less worried because we have compulsory voting and preferential voting, so it would eventually boil down to whoever most people thought was least shit. But MAGAs have shown they will vote no matter what, they will lie and cheat and gerrymander and pressure governors and tamper with votes, they will charge a government building, they will stop at nothing to get their guy in. Meanwhile you guys have to convince people that Biden is worth turning up to vote for, and if someone would prefer a third party he loses that vote completely. You're relying on young people who get most of their news from social media to not go "eh, things are already shit" and take an extra shift at work that day rather than standing in line for hours with no water. Or "everyone I know is voting Biden, Trump is a nutjob felon who can't possibly get in again" because they did not learn the lesson of 2016.

That said, I highly doubt the Dems will change candidates at this point. My ex was earnestly telling me on the weekend how he thinks there will be a last minute candidate switch but not until like 1-2 months before the election, and the Dems have all planned it far in advance but are waiting to announce their candidate so the GOP have less time and opportunity to smear them, but they've already been picked. I laughed in his face; I had not realised that he's apparently a conspiracy theorist now. As if any of the politicians who debated one another in the 2020 primaries would a) agree on who a new candidate should be, and b) choose that person silently without a single word of consultation with their constituents and the media, then lie about it for months. It's Biden, and it will stay Biden, if only because you can't say "that party is trying to dismantle our democracy!" while taking away your party members' right to choose their preferred leader. The real question now is what do you do with Biden to make sure enough people want to show up for him?

[AnywhereButHere]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-condemns-supreme-courts-ruling-on-trump-immunity-case/ar-BB1peMk5?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Quote

Washington — President Biden condemned the Supreme Court's landmark decision that former President Donald Trump is immune from prosecution for official acts he took while in office, saying it "almost certainly means that there are virtually no limits on what the president can do." 

"This is a fundamentally new principle and it's a dangerous precedent, because the power of the office will no longer be constrained by the law, even including the Supreme Court of the United States," Mr. Biden said Monday in brief remarks from the White House. "The only limits will be self-imposed by the president alone." 

Mr. Biden said the decision means "any president, including Donald Trump, will now be free to ignore the law." 

...

"The public has a right to know the answer about what happened on Jan. 6, before they [are] asked to vote again this year. Now, because of today's decision, that is highly, highly unlikely. It's a terrible disservice to the people of this nation," Mr. Biden said. 

"Now, the American people have to do what the court should have been willing to do but will not," he continued. "The American people have to render a judgment about Donald Trump's behavior. The American people must decide whether Donald Trump's assault on our democracy on Jan. 6 makes him unfit for public office, the highest office in the land. The American people must decide Trump's embrace of violence to preserve his power is acceptable." 

The president declined to take any questions after his statement.

I watched the statement and thought it was very strong, and I loved the visual of him speaking and then just striding away with the doors closing behind him. I didn't see it in the article, but he also made it a point to say while he, Biden, was an honorable man who would not take advantage of such a ruling, Trump most certainly is not and will take advantage. It was a great point to hit home.

 

Edited July 2 by AnywhereButHere

[GreyhoundFan]

16 hours ago, fraurosena said:

Biden is old, yes. Is he always as energetic and spritely as one would like to see? No. But he is surrounded by an energetic and extremely competent team of people that form the whole of his administration. And that is what you are voting for, and should be voting for. Not just the President, the figurehead, but his administration.

If and when Biden decides to step back, I'd like to see Pete Buttigieg as his replacement. Calm, competent, and extremely eloquent, able to handle himself with poise and get his point across so there's no arguing against it. And he's young enough that he'll engage all demographics.

Pete is my first choice for president. However, I can't picture him ever getting elected. Too many people here would never vote for an openly gay person.

[GreyhoundFan]

[SPHASH]

23 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Pete is my first choice for president. However, I can't picture him ever getting elected. Too many people here would never vote for an openly gay person.

I don't have a problem with a gay POTUS but there's still way too many people that do.  A good friend of my mom's who is a staunch Democrat is actually against gay marriage (religious reasons)

[zeebaneighba]

That is exactly the problem I have.  I don't care about Pete Buttigieg's sexual orientation, but there are FAR too many people in this country who do and that makes him unelctable. I wish that was not the case, but that is where we are right now.    

[St.Clara]

Unfortunately, considering the mindset of vast parts of the US population and considering your voting system, most people in your country realistically do not have the chance of becoming president. If you are a woman, if you are black, gay or Jewish, that is a reason to get less votes. I know, Obama was president but I think that this was a really special case. And besides, as I understand it he was rather restricted in pursuing political agendas that would have been perceived as too leftist or too liberal because he is black.

By virtue of being a white heterosexual Christian male, Biden could get things done a woman or a black person would have been demonized and destroyed for. To have him as the Democratic leader is therefore a brilliant strategic move. It is clear that Trump Republicans will attack that. It is a dumb (sorry!) if Democrats apologize for it.

I am German and I come from a family of Nazi supporters and opportunists. (My parents were too young, being born in the 1940s. I am talking about my grandparents and great-grandparents here.) After 1945, West Germany was a really difficult country to govern because a lot of its people were still nazis and anti-democrats with a lot of grievances and a deep-seated unwillingness to take accountability for what they had done or what had, at least, been done in their name. (Maybe that sounds somewhat familiar to you now. I grew up with it.) But as Konrad Adenauer, the German chancellor at the time, famously put it, „You have to take people as they are because there are no others.“ Adenauer was chancellor from 1949 to 1963. He had always been a strong opponent of Hitler and the Nazis and he managed to lead West Germany into becoming a democratic country that had good relations with its European neighbours. It was a harrowing task and he did things that could well be criticized. But his work was definitely a determining factor in making Germany the democratic country it is today. When he left office in 1963, he was 87.

That is why I am not impressed with Biden being „too old“. He is a very decent, intelligent person with a conscience. He gets the job done. He has a lot of great people in his administration who support him. For example, Lina Khan.

And yes, there are sure as hell many people as competent as Biden or maybe even more competent. But I agree with you that because they are not white heterosexual Christian males, they have but a very, very slim chance of becoming US president.

Is that fair? No. Is that sane? No. But it is the reality in 2024.

[Smee]

I don't know. In 2016 during the Republican primaries, most people I spoke to thought Trump wasn't electable. He was only ahead because of name recognition, not enough people will vote for some business celebrity with no political experience. Then he got the nomination and every pundit and poll said he wouldn't become President, of course moderate Republicans won't vote for him, only his noisy little fan base, he's a liability and an embarrassment. Turns out people were able to overlook a lot for the sake of the 'R' next to his name. Who's to say that wouldn't work in reverse - that there aren't people willing to swallow more progressive politics than their ideal because they hate the alternative enough, or that blind party loyalty to the Democrats wouldn't override discomfort with the candidate's sexuality or skin colour or gender or religion? Maybe a charismatic, intelligent, articulate gay man could inspire hope the way a charismatic, intelligent, articulate black man did. Maybe I'm naïve. But fortune favours the bold.

I know it's all hypothetical discussion because you don't have a Democratic primary this year and you can't vote for Buttigieg, but I would hope that when you can (in 4 years?), his sexuality doesn't factor into your decision. I tend to think "I don't care if he's gay, but I think being gay makes him unelectable" is another way of saying that you do care that he's gay.

[St.Clara]

I am not saying the Democrats should never support a candidate who is not a white heterosexual Christian male. Obviously not. It did work with Obama, it can and will - at some point - work again (if there should be another election, that is).

What I do think, though, is that they should stand behind the candidate they have chosen and not constantly apologize for what insufficiencies others may find in him or her. Whether these supposed "insufficiencies" be the person being gay, black, a woman or just old.

Republicans traditionally do not apologize for their candidate. I do hope that there are Republicans who will vote for Biden in November and are simply too afraid to say it publicly. But there are definitely still many Republicans who will vote for Trump just because he happens to be the Republican nominee.

The left has a tendency to self-destruct and infight, also in my country. I think that is very unfortunate, and, frankly, dangerous.

[zeebaneighba]

11 hours ago, Smee said:

I know it's all hypothetical discussion because you don't have a Democratic primary this year and you can't vote for Buttigieg, but I would hope that when you can (in 4 years?), his sexuality doesn't factor into your decision. I tend to think "I don't care if he's gay, but I think being gay makes him unelectable" is another way of saying that you do care that he's gay.

No I don't.  I would gladly vote for him.  I just know a lot of people would not.  Just like a lot of people could not bring themselves to vote for arguably the most qualified candidate in the last 50 years because she was a woman

[Jana814]

7 hours ago, zeebaneighba said:

No I don't.  I would gladly vote for him.  I just know a lot of people would not.  Just like a lot of people could not bring themselves to vote for arguably the most qualified candidate in the last 50 years because she was a woman

I definitely agree with this. 

[Smee]

Ok. I guess what I meant to say was that if your worries about other people not voting for him in the general prevent you from voting for him in the primary, then that to me indicates your acceptance of his sexuality is not as wholehearted as you think it is - if you believe he's the best man for the job then stand behind that view, rather than trying to mind-read the rest of the country. But if you will still vote for him and it's just a matter of discussing why you think it will be difficult for him, that's different. As I said, it's all hypothetical because there IS no primary this year, Biden is the candidate and he's the one you need to convince the voting public to show up for.

16 hours ago, zeebaneighba said:

Just like a lot of people could not bring themselves to vote for arguably the most qualified candidate in the last 50 years because she was a woman

Personally, I think it was more than misogyny that brought down Hillary. It turns out that alarmingly large number of people willing to throw their support behind Trump in 2016 were also willing to show up for him again in 2020 against a straight white man, both sides had record-breaking turnouts. Dems and swing voters didn't expect Trump to get elected in 2016, people who were lukewarm on Hillary didn't think they needed to vote because all the polls said she would win anyway. They learned their lesson and showed up for Biden four years ago but I don't believe it's because they especially like him more than her. And let's not forget that she won the popular vote in 2016; Trump got in on the stupid electoral college. I tend to think a lot of people in swing states who didn't show up to vote back then (or weren't registered to, or didn't have voter ID, or had health concerns, or were otherwise disenfranchised) wish they could go back in time and elect her.

[GreyhoundFan]

Parts of Texas have been hit hard by a hurricane. Of course their elected governor is nowhere to be found. The adult in the room is trying to do his job.

 

[noseybutt]

12 hours ago, Smee said:

 

Personally, I think it was more than misogyny that brought down Hillary. It turns out that alarmingly large number of people willing to throw their support behind Trump in 2016 were also willing to show up for him again in 2020 against a straight white man, both sides had record-breaking turnouts. Dems and swing voters didn't expect Trump to get elected in 2016, people who were lukewarm on Hillary didn't think they needed to vote because all the polls said she would win anyway. They learned their lesson and showed up for Biden four years ago but I don't believe it's because they especially like him more than her. And let's not forget that she won the popular vote in 2016; Trump got in on the stupid electoral college. I tend to think a lot of people in swing states who didn't show up to vote back then (or weren't registered to, or didn't have voter ID, or had health concerns, or were otherwise disenfranchised) wish they could go back in time and elect her.

I agree with this. Hillary Clinton was known to be very good on the job but not very good at campaigning. She has a personality that seems to work well with people who know her in-person and grates to many who watch her from a distance. She was never able to shake the Whitewater saga. Also, she is tied to Bill Clinton's legacy, and not just as a spouse because she was actively involved in his platform. For example, she got a huge percent of the black vote but black voters didn't really turn out in 2016. Clearly they were not excited to support her. The whole "super predator" and 1994 crime bill likely had something to do with that. 

[GreyhoundFan]

Apparently at TFG's bund meeting, he issued a challenge to Biden to play golf. This is Biden's response:

 

[GreyhoundFan]

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

god these fucking people. we can't win fair and square so let's fuck it up state by state