Joe Biden 2: President Dark Brandon For The Win!

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

whelp I've had a discouraging read through my social media again....as I've noted before ..."the young people" think Biden is just as bad as trump. There was a post that was kind of vague about Biden from a typically democrat/liberal leaning account. I decided to click on the comments to understand what the post meant. Yikes.

The 1st comment that has many many many likes was "It's hard to vote for genocide. This is a tough choice"  - many comments below this agreeing that voting for Biden is just as bad a trump, they don't know what to do, etc.

Somebody commented something like Trump 2024! the economy will be so much better!

The responses to that comment did not disagree with the idea that the economy will be better. But several people commented to this guy "yeah maybe the economy will be better but women will have no rights!"

So this guy (nicely) responded "I don't understand why you would say that can you explain why women wouldn't have rights? I really don't understand"

response " Have you read Project 2025? That should tell you all you need to know"

"Project 2025 isn't real.....and even if it was it would be unconstitutional, it won't happen."

---------------

So again, I really don't think Biden's age is the problem. It's just a headline talking point. The die hard dems are voting for him no matter what.

On many top issues, people genuinely believe that trump has a better platform.

To be clear I don't agree, but when I talk to people in my daily life and read through social media comments I'm seeing these same things come up over and over.

This is a total failure of democrat messaging at all levels. Looking at the numbers I've seen, there's nothing that looks to me like trump did well with the economy at all. But you don't hear about that. You hear trump talking about the best economy ever! Trump has managed to mostly keep his mouth shut on israel/gaza. So his hands look clean. Biden has presented a wishy washy front of trying to play both sides. 

I don't understand how marketing and all that works but it's clear to me that democrats are failing miserably at this.

 

 

[noseybutt]

I suspect Gaza will be the next “single issue” for some younger voters and Democrats are miscalculating by thinking it’s abortion.

[Ozlsn]

1 hour ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

Project 2025 isn't real.....and even if it was it would be unconstitutional, it won't happen."

I am literally laughing in disbelief here. I mean, yes, I'm probably a good couple of decades older than the commenter, and undoubtedly a lot more cynical. But even so... the constitution is, in the end, a piece of paper. If you have the power you can rip it up, or make it unrecognisable, as SCOTUS has effectively already done. The Weimar Republic had a constitution, which did absolutely no good after the Nazis came to power. The Russian Federation has a constitution which is suffering the death of 1000 cuts (the President already had a lot of power, now has more, also heterosexual marriage only is now enshrined there since 2020). That is the most naive comment I've seen in ages - and also when someone not only tells you who they are but publishes in multiple media about it, for crying out loud believe them.

[St.Clara]

AOC on why she thinks Biden should stay on:

I just love this woman. I hope that she will be your president someday.

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

4 hours ago, St.Clara said:

AOC on why she thinks Biden should stay on:

I just love this woman. I hope that she will be your president someday.

I'm guessing by your comment that you aren't American. 

I like AOC but there's just zero chance she would become president. 

[St.Clara]

21 minutes ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I'm guessing by your comment that you aren't American. 

I like AOC but there's just zero chance she would become president. 

I am not American, you are right. And if we speak about the near future, I get what you are saying.

But AOC is still young. Things can and do change, for the worse, but also for the better. The US might not be a democracy in 2050. Or you might have AOC as president. Who is to know?

[GreyhoundFan]

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

6 hours ago, St.Clara said:

I am not American, you are right. And if we speak about the near future, I get what you are saying.

But AOC is still young. Things can and do change, for the worse, but also for the better. The US might not be a democracy in 2050. Or you might have AOC as president. Who is to know?

I think it's about as likely as canada turning on us and staging an invasion. Anything is possible I suppose.

I think realistically AOC is never going to have the wide appeal to win all the big square states in the middle and being from "up north" AND a woman AND a minority AND loudspoken....she's not going to appeal to the general voters in the south. Clinton had a loooooong career and some very serious name recognition. Despite everything people tend to thing very fondly of Bill Clinton and she was way less "extreme" or progressive.

In the end clinton wasn't able to play to win the electoral college game. It's wildly unbalanced at this point. They have to think about these things. I think the best case scenario if we survive this election is that we swing back to moderate candidates on both sides. 

I'm more liberal than almost anybody I know in person and as much as I'd like the US to swing left HARD. It's not going to work for most people in the US who as far as I can tell seem to overall be more conservative than most people in european countries. And that's not even considering that our government office are pretty much for sale to rich people at all levels and the supreme court decided that businesses have political rights as much as people and campaign finance limits are a joke here.

Hopefully AOC can become a senator. Representatives do not have as much power and influence and at least to my mind seem to cycle in and out much faster. Senators tend to sit in their offices for a very long time.

Anyway - the news is nothing but "biden is considering stepping down" while a handful of people who know him keep saying he's not thinking any such thing. This needs to come to a head ASAP. Somebody was interviewing today and said that the big "donors" (whoever they are) have said that no democrats at any level are getting any campaign money until biden steps down. I expect this is ramp up politicians calling for him to resign.

I've also started to hear republican pundits saying forget the nomination, biden doesn't seem able to finish the year out. And the dem pundits did not argue with it. Ouch.

If the narrative shifts to biden seems to feeble to finish the year (and there's nothing to contradict that)- I mean it's done. it's just giving trump the election. 

 

[Ozlsn]

My understanding is that if Biden were to step down at this point it would cause legal issues in multiple states which would go to SCOTUS, with predictable results (undoubtedly couched in "the founding fathers would absolutely have wanted what we want" terms).  At this point the Dems need to STFU about switching or withdrawing, and ride as far as I can see.

Which does make me wonder - if both Trump and Biden were to die before the election does this mean it would have to be between the two dead guys? Is there seriously no mechanism to postpone and run again with living candidates? For a system set up in a time when sudden death was not exactly uncommon it seems bizarre that there is not structure in place to accommodate candidates dying between nomination and election day.

[AnywhereButHere]

Technically, Biden isn’t the confirmed nominee yet. That wouldn’t happen until the election, so if he’s going to step down and ensure a smooth transition, he does need to do it soon. Very soon. The biggest problem would be Ohio it seems, as they print their ballots super early. The attached articles do a decent job of breaking the possible scenarios down.

 I’ve  learned more about my country’s election rules over the past 8 years than I have in the 28 years of my voting life before that, which I’m realizing was very cavalier and sad. 
 

https://amp.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article290236299.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna162486

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

"“If, for some reason, a person becomes the nominee at the convention and something happens where they’re no longer able to be the nominee, there would be a call of the DNC members to take a vote on who the new person would be. We saw this in 1972 when the vice presidential nominee stepped aside. The 435 members of the Democratic Party will then take a vote to replace that individual.”

https://amp.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article290236299.html

I think there is a general process if the nominee were to die or otherwise become incapacitated. Despite the supreme court's attempts to go back to the 1700s....we don't actually do it the way we started out originally. It used to be the dude with the most votes was prez and 2nd most was vice prez. 

Can you imagine? That would have made Hillary and Tump combination of some sort .

I'm leaning more and more to he should just drop out. We look like idiots. People are turning on him. Other countries can pull off whole elections in a couple of months. We still have over 3 months. I'd rather some actual discussion take place than biden becomes incapacitated and harris is put forward with no discussion at all. I don't have any strong views on her in either direction but the conversation needs to be had whether she's a good candidate. There were concerns last time about her d/t biden's age and what if he died in office. It's not going to be pretty no matter what happens. But I genuinely question whether biden has any hope of winning. His campaign has been pathetic and it's getting worse. 

 

1 hour ago, AnywhereButHere said:

 I’ve  learned more about my country’s election rules over the past 8 years than I have in the 28 years of my voting life before that, which I’m realizing was very cavalier and sad. 
 

https://amp.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article290236299.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna162486

For what it's worth, I don't think it's sad you've not learned more sooner. USA's election system is ridiculously and unnecessarily convoluted.  Of course there's no push to rectify this and bring it into the modern age because special interests and money can use the byzantine system more easily without drawing attention to themselves.

[noseybutt]

Remember Biden “signaling” that he would not run for a second term?

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129

This is a big part of the head scratcher for me. Where along the way did he change his mind so thoroughly? 

[St.Clara]

The main thing for me in what AOC is saying (and she had many good points) is that those who push for Biden to withdraw do not have any plans in place for who should run if he does not. She says that she knows from talks behind the scenes that a significant number of these people would NOT support Kamala. That is a problem for several reasons, among other things because Biden has a lot of funds for campaigning that his vice president could also use if he were to step down but that any other candidate could not use (legally). That means whoever would run (if not Kamala) would have basically zero funds for campaigning to start with. When early voting starts in September.

Also, if Biden were to step down, Democrats would begin to quarrel publicly about who should run. Which will presumably take time they do not have. If Kamala should then make it she would start with the public burden of not even her own people supporting her unanimously. "Democrats in chaos"

AOC said that she repeatedly voiced her concerns behind the scenes with those who push for Biden to withdraw. But they do not have any answers for her. They seem to think no further than Biden stepping down and then all will be well. She also says that in these conversations her colleagues always talk about what their donors want, not about what their constituents want. That is a problem for democratic reasons as well as for professional reasons, so to speak. First, these seem to be cases of: buying a certain outcome vs. voting for a certain outcome which obviously should not happen, even less when we are having a conversation about preserving a democracy. And second, it is the politicans´ job to figure out how to succeed in an election, and there is professional knowledge that goes into that. (AOC goes into much interesting detail here.) If certainly well meaning but clueless donors request a certain action that presumably will not lead to the desired outcome, which they do not know because they are not politicians that is also a problem. The politician is the expert and should act as such. To do what your donor wants and not care about the consequences means you fail to do your duty to the people who voted for you.

Also, AOC says that if the Democrats change their candidate at their convention, that is too late for some states, so there could be legal challenges to whoever runs, particularly in the swing states. Mike Johnson has already said that they are preparing for going to court in such a case. This would obviously end up in front of the Supreme Court. AOC says that she sees a high probability that if Democrats nominate anybody else than Biden at this point, the Supreme Court will decide on who should become president. And by this point I think we all know how they would decide.

I know that AOC is far left but all she says here is not about being left, it is that nobody seems to have thought about the sheer practicality of this.

This is a really frightening situation. And it is, for me, too, frankly, because it will impact the whole world if Trump wins. For example, Putin will then defeat Ukraine in no time and then, probably proceed to occupy Lithuania or Poland. For a European, this is a horrible prospect.

It seems to me the people who push for Biden to leave urgently want to get out of a bad situation but do not give much thought to the idea that the situation they will find themselves in after may be even worse. I know that everybody here wants the best. But it seems to me also, that there are bad actors in the media, or rather, among the owners of said media. What a field day would they have with headlines like: "top democrats do not believe in Kamala´s ability to win the presidency" or "will Gretchen or Gavin save the Democrats?"

It seems to me that any Democrat candidate would have to operate in a bad-faith environment, not just Biden. Biden is obviously not perfect, but it seems to me that Biden is getting the blame for something that every other Democrat would have to suffer from, too.

 

 

Edited July 21 by St.Clara

[Becky]

This is looking more and more like a disaster. The Democrats better get organized behind a candidate like NOW, whether that is Pres. Biden or someone else.  IMO, they also need to totally retool the campaign.  Right now the only press I am seeing regarding Pres Biden is how feeble he is and how many Dems are calling for him to step down.  It is not a good look, and I fear it may be too late to save us.  

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

The republicans are like the proverbial sharks smelling blood in the water. They're already talking about challenging whether biden is able to finish out the year and if/how they can challenge his competency. They're going to challenge whatever they can. I feel like they're going to do something no matter what happens. 

I don't see how it could be illegal for democrats to change candidates up to or at the convention. That's the whole point of the convention. Also, this isn't the hunger games - biden is allowed to drop out. It's not like he's locked in for life. And if a person is allowed to drop out - it doesn't follow that therefore the republicans can claim some legal challenge nor does it follow that the supreme court would "pick" the president or nominee.

Republicans may want to challenge but what legal standing would they have? 

as far as I have read the actual problem is that Ohio prints their ballots way too early and there's possibilities of not having the correct people on the ballots for early voting. And not having a democrat on the ballot  for Ohio would be bad.

I mean are the democrats challenging trump's nomination on the idea that the people who voted for nikki haley were somehow denied their vote? this doesn't make sense. 

Complaining that it's not the democratic process to let donors make decisions - well that ship sailed a long long time ago. Clearly - very clearly - donors are running the process and have been for some time on both sides.

So either AOC is ignorant of all this (which I doubt) or she is purposefully trying to rile people up in the opposite direction. She tends to lean into riling people up. 

I think there is something to be said for the actual democratic process of picking your candidate and doing so based on information at hand - not information from 3 years ago. Biden clearly is having health health issues and there seems to have been an effort to hide that fact. Unfortunately this is all coming very late in the game but how is it more democratic to ignore it?

I still contend this isn't even the issue. Whoever the candidate is - democrats are not messaging well and look incompetent because of it. The undecided voters are not going to be swayed to the dem side through gross incompetence. I don't understand why the democrats think that trump/republicans are so awful that everybody will just naturally vote for them. That seems to be the thinking "oh well, people won't *really* vote for trump" 

democrats could start messaging "hey it doesn't matter exactly who the president is - we democrats have it together, we have a plan, and we're going to work for you!" They're not though. I have no idea what the democrats specific plans are and what they hope to do when republicans block everything out of spite and the supreme court is hijacked.  I don't understand how they've become so useless.

I think a lot of it is nobody wants to really call trump out because that MAGA machine will turn on them. The career dems seem to all be holding their breath until trump is out of the running - THEN they'll come forward, maybe then they'll  really take a stand. 

if I was 60/40 dem/republican issues...I would not feel confident voting for biden/harris.  Because I wouldn't feel they're going to get anything through. If I was more middle of the road I think I'd look at trump's campaign and say "well I don't agree with everything - but one thing is for sure - I think he gets some of his stuff done. Maybe he'll get the stuff I want done. The democrats can't get anything done"

 

[mango_fandango]

He’s pulled out. 

[AnywhereButHere]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/07/21/election-2024-biden-trump-campaign-updates/

Quote

President Biden is ending his presidential campaign, a momentous decision that upends the 2024 presidential race.

“I believe it is in the best interest of my party and the country for me to stand down and to focus solely on fulfilling my duties as President for the reminder of my term,” Biden said in a statement.

I guess this is it. Decision has been made. I’m a bit relieved, a bit sad, and still a lot worried over what comes next. 

[Giraffe]

I'm relieved, sad, disappointed, terrified, and so many other emotions. 

[AnywhereButHere]

It’s actually decent timing I think. He was so insistent on staying in the race that I think the Covid gave him a graceful way out. He makes it in before the Ohio ballots go out. Making the announcement now sucks all the attention and oxygen away from Trump. 
 

Husband thinks it’s possible that he may have planned on dropping out earlier but waited until after the RNC convention, and now they’re officially stuck with Trump. 
 

I’d  be really happy with a Harris/Buttigieg ticket, but I guess now we get to see what happens next. Fasten your seatbelts - it’s going to be a bumpy night. Or many nights…

Edited July 21 by AnywhereButHere

[Giraffe]

I also feel a tiny twinge of hope for the first time since Trump announced he was running. 

One of my roommates hopes it's Harris & Mark Kelley. I'd be good with that, too. 

[Giraffe]

Biden's officially endorsed Harris (as expected.)

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

I'm sad for him because I feel like this isn't what he personally wants and it's rough on a person's ego. Being president is the last job you'll ever have and it's kinda a crap way to go out. Although we now have several months where hopefully he can reinstate his name since the "does he have parkinson's/half dead/dementia" conversations should essentially stop.

I'm relieved on one front. But I think Harris is a hard sell. I think the democrats are doing a terrible job and I'm concerned about our ability to rally and get our shit together quickly. I am going to be cautiously hopeful that maybe we can focus now. If Harris can get some good messaging out I think there's a potential to offer a sane alternative to the middle ground/undecided/independents who would rather not have trump. We'll see how the next week goes. 

[viii]

This is for the best. Good luck, Americans. I hope Harris can get it done. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

and oh yeah...who would be a good VP pick???????????? I've not even thought about it. I don't think PeteB is reasonable at all. Harris is a hard enough sell. Mark Kelley sounds good as far as I know anything about him - which is very little

I hope Obama comes out strong and soon - sets the tone. People see him as being calm and reasonable.

[yeahthatsme74]

I know there are issues, but I feel like the schoolyard bullies have won. I alternately feel like crying and having a panic attack.