Bro Gary Hawkins 23: Give Us the History

[AmazonGrace]

Uh and Lot's wife? You know, that lady who was first made homeless while her hometown and everything she knew was being destroyed and then turned into a pillar of salt for looking back at the ruins of her old life wistfully or in horror. 

I am sure somebody will tell me it's symbolic of being born again and not going back to a life of sin. But on the theory that everything in the Bible really happened that's one of the worst by God I think. How hard is it to deliberately not to look at something you have been told to ignore on a good day? And this was not a good day, she was an incredibly traumatized lady in a shock, in the middle of a crisis reaction.

[thoughtful]

More anti-Halloween crap from Gary; a repost. I C&P the text, rather than doing a bunch of screen shots.

 

Quote

Truth Tellers

On Halloween, some kids will dress up as witches and devils, or even seemingly harmless costumes like puppies and pumpkins, and go trick-or-treating. But an ex-Satanist is warning Christians against doing that.

For John Ramirez, the Devil was more than a costume. To him, Satan was his father. In fact, he even got married on Halloween in a demonic ceremony.

"I was a general to the kingdom of darkness in witchcraft," Ramirez said. "I would sit with the Devil and talk to him like I'm talking to you today. It was that kind of communication. It was that kind of relationship."

But after several decades of living as an ally of evil, God opened his eyes. Ramirez was born again and gave his life to Jesus Christ, and everything changed. Now he warns Christians about dabbling with the darkness.

Opinions differ among church leaders and churchgoers alike about whether Christians should celebrate Halloween. But Ramirez, who's now a Christian evangelist, says believers should not celebrate it.

How did he come to that conclusion? He says he knows, because he used to talk to the Devil himself, that "trick or treating" is something to be taken very seriously.

"How is it that we're going to be in a place of saluting and honoring the devil when October is witchcraft month? I lived it for 25 years," said Ramirez. "I practiced it for 25 years. So, you're going to come out of left field and you never lit up a candle, killed animals, drank animal blood. You never sat down with the devil and you're going to tell me that Halloween is okay? I think you're very delusional as a believer."

Credit: CBN

Becky posted for the first time in a month, trying to help someone else sell a car.

I checked the prayer requests from the Wednesday night service at Family Baptist. Gary is hard to hear, but I think he asked for prayers for "the Townsend family, 'cause his wife passed away Monday." 

Pastor Baker, while jotting something down and sounding bored, says "Now the Townsend family, we've been praying for them, that was coming."

Spoiler

Baker asks how Gary's mother is doing. I can't hear Gary's answer, but Baker says "Still kicking. So, keep prayin' for his mom, the miracle God did there."

[thoughtful]

Another weird moment in the mind of right-wing fundies - I looked at Frank Townsend's Facebook page again. Shortly before his wife died, he'd made another heartbreaking post wishing she could recover but dutifully saying that he would accept God's will.

On that same day, he posted a meme about women needing to dress modestly, one about God being in authority, and this idiotic thing that is several years old already:

Spoiler

Quote

And this... is the rest of the story...The world knew her as “Aunt Jemima”, but her given name was Nancy Green and she was a true American success story. She was born a slave in 1834 Montgomery County, KY. and became a superstar in the advertising world, as its first living trademark. Green was 56-yrs old when she was selected as spokesperson for a new ready-mixed, self-rising pancake flour and made her debut in 1893 at a fair and exposition in Chicago. She demonstrated the pancake mix and served thousands of pancakes, and became an immediate star. She was a good storyteller, her personality was warm and appealing, and her showmanship was exceptional. Her exhibition booth drew so many people that special security personnel were assigned to keep the crowds moving. Nancy Green was signed to a lifetime contract, and traveled on promotional tours all over the country, Her death was in 1923, at age 89.

The picture is obviously not from the time period when Nancy Green was working. Quite a few women portrayed the character over the years. That is a picture of Edith Wilson, not Nancy Green, and is probably from the 1950s.

And, of course, most of the story is false, a desperate attempt to make it look like "cancel culture" is actually less respectful of black history than right-wingers, who passed around this meme and story when the character was dropped three years ago.

I'm sure none of them had heard of Nancy Green before that, and posting the story with a picture of the wrong woman doesn't exactly look respectful of these actors as individuals.

Ordinarily, I'd give anyone a pass on what they were posting, thinking or doing while a loved one was dying. We cling to whatever distracts or comforts us at a time like that. But it still saddens me to see what people like this cling to when distressed.

[Ozlsn]

On 10/28/2023 at 2:46 PM, Xan said:

So much of the Old Testament is like that. He's just a vengeful, tricky god and seems more like Zeus or Jupiter than the actual Almighty that he's supposed to be.

At that point I think he was still more of a tribal God rather than the One True God. I forget roughly when that shift occurred, but it has had some significant impacts.

One of the things I really liked about the remake of Battlestar Galactica and Caprica was the exploration of some of the disadvantages of a monotheic belief system vs a polytheic one.

Also liking that Gary is getting some pushback and even mild trolling.

[thoughtful]

Did Gary who claims he never gets sick actually go to a doctor, or did Becky diagnose him? Is he taking antibiotics, or just praying?

I'm hoping he'll have the sense to stay home from church - during his anti-precautions Covid rants, he always said people who know they have something contagious should stay home.

[postscript]

Every time I see new content in this thread in recent weeks, I wonder if Gary’s mother has passed. I don’t wish pneumonia on him, but that news is mild in comparison. 

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, postscript said:

Every time I see new content in this thread in recent weeks, I wonder if Gary’s mother has passed. I don’t wish pneumonia on him, but that news is mild in comparison. 

Two days ago, his sister posted:

Quote

Momma is staying about the same enjoying being home with family. She is happy to have her new baby. Please continue to pray!!

Looks like they adopted an adult dog - perhaps a miniature schnauzer or mix with that breed. So someone did have the sense not to bring a puppy into that situation.

It appears that Gary did stay home from church this morning - no sign of him in the video.

[keepercjr]

I am so relieved to see it is an adult or at least older teen dog.  And I doubt they adopted it, probably purchased it from someone.  Hope they commit to grooming the dog.  Its very cute.  We have a new puppy.  Had her 3 weeks now (she is 11 weeks or so).  I can't imagine trying to train a puppy and take care of dying mom.  Plus no way is a puppy with energy gonna sit and be a lap dog.  I hope Sheila is enrolled in hospice.

[thoughtful]

Gary bravely posts from his sickbed. Is "wickness" the quality of being a string in a candle?

Spoiler

Further text:

Quote

For all who are planning to celebrate Halloween this October, please reconsider. It is deeply pagan.

We are celebrators of life, not death, as Christians.

Jeremiah 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

http://www.newgrange.com/samhain.htm

Jeremiah N April Hernandez

Good reminder for all Christians this time of year.

https://www.facebook.com/100000227170667/posts/24761797710077792/?mibextid=mOSaIu

3h

A fight broke out in the comments:

Quote

Rodney Madden

The kids are not making sacrifices.

The kids are not practicing witch craft.

The kids are not worshipping devils.

7h

Chris Howe

Rodney Madden the parents that are letting them to participate are implying to them that it is ok to do so

7h

Rodney Madden

Chris Howe Are the parents practicing witchcraft?

Are the parents worshipping devils?

7h

Rodney Madden

Chris Howe First there must be a crime before one is condemned of that crime.

7h

Gary Hawkins

Rodney Madden so many people take up for evil in these days. GOD said it would happen in the last days

7h

Rodney Madden

Gary Hawkins What evil is being committed if they are NOT practicing witchcraft Not worshipping devils?

5h

Gary Hawkins

Rodney Madden just being a part of it is evil. I know you don’t see it it’s because you don’t care

5h

Rodney Madden

Gary Hawkins Jesus ate with sinners so just because he was among sinners did that make it evil?

What evil is in you supporting the Companies that promote Halloween to make money by doing business with them Walmart, Kroger's, Dollar store, General dollar etc.

What evil is in NOT protecting witchcraft?

What evil is in NOT worshiping

If they are NOT committing evil is it the evil in your own mind that fults them?

4h

Barbara Scruggs

Rodney Madden I have a question for you. Can you personally tell me of something positive about the origins of Halloween. And further can you tell me something positive about anything associated with Halloween? Idk know you so I don't know if you are a believer or not but if so , if you believe God is real and believe the teachings of the scriptures will you explain to me how in what way does Halloween bring glory to God. Unfortunately or maybe not depending on your perspective I am very familiar with many pagan practices. And a lot of professing Chriatians celebrate or go along with various pagan practices out of ignorance . Too many are offended when they are told that something they grew up celebrating or doing and even their parents and grandparents participated in is pagan. There is a verse in thw Bible that says something like " my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge " which is very true. I think before being upset that someone is stating something ia wrong see if you can find a reason why it would be right . If you don't believe God and don't profess to be a Christian then your world view will be very different than that of a professing Chriatian. Especially so for those who have actually done their research. And while we are not out doing everything thw Druids did do and possibly even others before them we need to know why we believe it's okay to participate in the things we do. Because what we do and what we believe matters. And everyone has someone looking up to them in some way. Whether it's a neighbor a child a friend or relative or juat some random stranger. We should know what we believe abd for why. If you believe its okay to celebrate Halloween Christmas , Easter and so on know why you believe as you do. And look at the origins. Origins matter. Know what you're celebrating.

4h

Barbara Scruggs

And please excuse my typos I can't really see well and ita hard for mw to type on this phone .

4h

Gary Hawkins

Rodney Madden wow

4h

Rodney Madden

Gary Hawkins Wow

Do you support those companies that promote Halloween by doing business with them. Walmart, Kroger, Dollar General, the Dollar store etc.

Do you have 2 different standards in doing this?.

4h

Gary Hawkins

Rodney Madden that won’t work in judgment

4h

Barbara Scruggs

Gary Hawkins Maybe he has not studied deeply into the subject matter. If he has never studied deeply into the matter then it may be that he doesn't know enough to care. And people do get caught up in their lives and culture around them and forget that everything has an origin and not everything's good. Just because someone may like sweets and such it doesn't mean it's healthy or in any form good . And while many may not like to study and seek wisdom and understanding we are told repeatedly throughout scriptures to study snd to seek wisdom and not to forsake understanding . I am currently using my phone and it's hard for me to type on it or to copy paste scriptural references but you can look and see all the verses on seeking knowledge and wisdom within your own Bible. We are told to seek wisdom and to study. Maybe this person will take time to study this subject soon. But until they have its difficult for them to have understanding when all around them people are celebrating pagan holidays. And many are unaware. Halloween is or should be obvious to most but there are other pagan holidays being celebrated every single year by professing Chriatians. And done unaware because people don't study and don't know. I think it's good to make people aware but maybe we shouldn't tell them they don't care when they don't really know. It's hard for people to understand or care about things they don't really know anything about. Or if they do know and think it's okay because everyone else is doing it it's hard to reach them and they may just need prayer that God would give them wisdom and understanding and the desire to study and seek after that which is right. Hopefully that all made sense above . I hope you all are doing well.

4h

Rodney Madden

Gary Hawkins Do you support any of these companies? By doing business with them?

Let the truth speak for itself

In judgment

4h

Gary Hawkins

Rodney Madden some people never grow up

4h

Gary Hawkins

Barbara Scruggs we are doing good

4h

Barbara Scruggs

Gary Hawkins That's good .

4h

Rodney Madden

Gary Hawkins And some don't want to grow up.

But whether we grow up or not want change the truth.

3h

Gary Hawkins

Rodney Madden you are ok with wickness and throwing the children to the devil

2h

Rodney Madden

Gary Hawkins

What wickedness is in kids NOT practicing witchcraft?

What Wickedness is in kids NOT worshipping devils?

What wickedness is in having fun and getting some candy

Or is the wickedness in your own mind thinking these kinds have an evil intent in there hearts?

2h

Gary Hawkins

Rodney Madden why don’t you understand this. Dressing up the children given them transgender ideas

2h

Edited

Rodney Madden

Gary Hawkins Now You are grasping at staws to prove a point that cannot be proven.

Halloween has nothing to do with giving kids transgendder ideas

At least try to stick to the topic.

2h

Gary Hawkins

Rodney Madden goodbye you will get it on judgment day.

2h

Kolt Edd

Rodney Madden Ever here of Anton Lavey the founder of the Church of Satan once said....I WANT TO THANK CHRISTIAN PARENTS FOR LETTING THEIR CHILDREN WORSHIP THE DEVIL AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR.

1h

Jason Jackson

Please watch this gentlemen.

https://www.youtube.com/live/ALY9aLKm9YI?si=gKjN5eNKMeO8j52p

YOUTUBE.COM

A Pastor Shares His Thoughts on Halloween

A Pastor Shares His Thoughts on Halloween

6h

Jeremiah N April Hernandez

Good reminder for all Christians this time of year.

https://www.facebook.com/100000227170667/posts/24761797710077792/?mibextid=mOSaIu

 

[Botkinetti]

I hope Rodney Madden had some ice for the bruise he must have gotten from banging his head against the wall. He tried reason and logic so of course no one would listen.

[postscript]

Rodney, trying to reason with Gary is futile. Quit while you’re ahead.

Seeing Gary say “some people never grow up” gave me both a laugh and an eyeroll. 

[thoughtful]

Halloween is over, so Gary has nothing more to say about it.

Who am I kidding? Behold, the post-Hellween self-righteous challenge:

I guess that turning off the porch light and not answering the door was not an option, eh, Gary, despite your having pneumonia? Dickwad.

Comments so far, about as clear and grammatically correct as usual:

Spoiler

 

[Alisamer]

On 10/27/2023 at 11:46 PM, Xan said:

Thank you.  That story even bothered me when I was a child.  So much of the Old Testament is like that. He's just a vengeful, tricky god and seems more like Zeus or Jupiter than the actual Almighty that he's supposed to be.  Why make people, test them, and just throw them out?  Then again, I didn't understand the loyalty test that God gave Abraham by telling him to kill his own son.  

Old testament God really is IMO just an amalgamation of other Gods, as best I can tell. He even says that people should have no other gods above him, implying there are other gods under him. (I will give you that this could potentially be a translation issue.) But the old testament god really is pretty awful on the face of it. Especially with the New Testament added in - so he's supposed to be a loving father, but at the same time supposed to be the one who was all "hey, if you worship me, you gotta sacrifice your son!" followed by "Psyche! JK LOL!" at the last minute. 

To me the old testament makes sense best as essentially a compilation of tales and legends, some related to the Abrahamic god, and some with the stories adjusted slightly to be that God instead of whatever god the story originally applied to. The new testament seems a little more coherent, but also has a heavy focus on Paul who was kind of like the Miscavige of Christianity it seems like. I've not studied in detail, but that's how it feels to me. Judaism kept the Torah, Christianity got Jesus followed by Paul, and Islam got their Prophet. And all of them have been splitting hairs and splitting into groups ever since. 

On 10/30/2023 at 6:10 PM, thoughtful said:

Can you personally tell me of something positive about the origins of Halloween. And further can you tell me something positive about anything associated with Halloween?

Quote from the lady above who thinks Gary can and will read all of her writing there, and who thinks Halloween is terrible and pagan. But at least seems consistent in acknowledging the pagan origins of Easter and Christmas, so there's that!

Yes, Barbara, I can tell you some positive things about the origin of Halloween. It's the end of the harvest! It's the time of celebrating that a hard summer of work is now done, that the fruits of your labor are stored away to feed you through the winter, and that now it is time to finish up preparations for the colder, darker season of the year. It's a time to switch from harvest to hunting, to prepare your home for the cold times, and to gather as a community before the weather becomes dangerous and the more spare times of year are here. It might have been the last time you saw some of your neighbors and spent time with them, if they were old or frail or vulnerable to illnesses or cold. It may have been a last chance to check in with everyone, make sure your elderly neighbor got their harvest in and stored away, and was the last time of abundance to eat fresh foods before a winter of living off whatever stores well. It is basically New Year's, in some traditions. 

And today? It's FUN. Candy and spooky movies and fun decorations and dressing up in costume and having parties. It's toward the end of warm weather where I live (this year was a bit chilly and damp, some years it's quite warm still), the leaves are turning and falling and it's just a gorgeous time of year. 

I wore a witch hat to work all day yesterday, with a spider brooch on the side, and it was cute. I'm sure Gary and Barbara would accuse me of witchcraft or worshiping satan or something but to be honest I ended up spending the evening knitting and didn't even get around to lighting a candle or doing a tarot reading like I'd planned! Maybe I'll do that this evening. I need to sort and rearrange all my tarot decks anyway. The collection just keeps expanding.

 

[thoughtful]

Rebecca is going to catch heck from Gary (if he bothers to read the newer comments:

[thoughtful]

Becky and Gary were not in church tonight. Pastor Baker said Gary was getting better, and hoping to be in church on Sunday, and, of course, asked all to pray for him.

[thoughtful]

Gary has left off of Halloween to discuss the weather. I guess he's trying to be funny:

Spoiler

Also, a language lesson about preacher vs. pastor - it seems that the recipient of the haranguing - er, preaching - makes all the difference:

Spoiler

So, if you feel more like your pastor is a pain in the ass than a helpful guide, it's your fault!

[thoughtful]

Gary would never make it as a Mormon:

Spoiler

 

[Xan]

Gary's sister (?) posted on Facebook that Sheila is having trouble getting her blood pressure up and might not be eligible to do her dialysis.  I figured Gary might post something but he seems otherwise occupied.

[thoughtful]

21 minutes ago, Xan said:

Gary's sister (?) posted on Facebook that Sheila is having trouble getting her blood pressure up and might not be eligible to do her dialysis.  I figured Gary might post something but he seems otherwise occupied.

I just looked at her facebook page, and she posted about 20 minutes ago that Sheila was able to do dialysis.

I wonder if Gary bothers to check with the rest of the family, expects Becky to do it, or just waits for them to tell him what's going on.

[Ozlsn]

On 11/2/2023 at 3:03 AM, Alisamer said:

Yes, Barbara, I can tell you some positive things about the origin of Halloween. It's the end of the harvest

It comes from Christians turning a pagan harvest festival into a Christian one (per twitter, no idea how true that is).

[Alisamer]

8 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

It comes from Christians turning a pagan harvest festival into a Christian one (per twitter, no idea how true that is).

Most Christian holidays are basically that sort of thing, in my understanding. Christians would come in, convert the populace, all that... but getting people to give up their traditions is not an easy task. So for a while, quite a while in some situations, the old festivals and such would exist alongside. And then the Christian saints would sometimes get conflated with local gods much the same way the Romans would either adopt local gods or decide they were an aspect of an existing Roman god. And the big Christian festivals would get layered over top of the existing big pagan festivals, so people could still have their celebration they were used to, just with a Christian veneer. All Saint's day got moved to basically overlap Samhain in the 9th century or so, starting in the British Isles. Easter is named after an Anglo Saxon goddess celebrated in the Spring. Christmas is right around and shares many traditions with Yule. Many of the old pagan traditions are still existing in the British Isles especially, just tied into saint's feast days or made into special Sundays or in some other way made Christian-ish. 

I think the conversion of many people (much of Europe at least) wasn't some big wholesale event like Bro Gary would probably prefer, where everyone suddenly "got saved" and gave up all the old stuff and started being super Christian. I think that largely, in practice, it was just a gradual transformation. Same festivals, just calling God a different name, at first. Just Christianity slowly being incorporated into life until the point where there were enough people identifying as Christian that the non Christian leftover traditions and holdout devotees started becoming taboo. It might have only been a generation or two, but I think few people had mountaintop moments and converted everything all at once.

That's daily life for ordinary people, of course. The wealthy and powerful did what the king preferred, to curry favor, and those catering to the wealthy and powerful did what the wealthy and powerful preferred because it benefited them to do so. The big wholesale changes came when either the law started mandating Christianity or the church got powerful enough to be dangerous to oppose. Which probably was quicker on the large scale and much slower on the individual person scale, especially among the rural and poor. 

[Ozlsn]

3 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I think the conversion of many people (much of Europe at least) wasn't some big wholesale event like Bro Gary would probably prefer, where everyone suddenly "got saved" and gave up all the old stuff and started being super Christian

Quite a lot of people had a bob each way for generations (no point annoying the old gods, just in case...), including the wealthy. The Nordic countries were officially "Christianised" multiple times as successive rulers decided to lean towards allying with different powers. 

I've been trying to find the tweet but it was expressing amusement at Christians getting upset at Halloween, which was the Christian replacement for the harvest festival. Surely Gary and his ilk should be out there on All Souls Day, expressing gratitude for not having been taken with sin still in their souls... and harassing people so that fate doesn't befall them. Doubt Gary has ever heard of that though!

[thoughtful]

Gary's sister posted 23 hours ago that her mother was going back to the hospital, and two hours ago that she was "nearing the shore," followed by the obligatory stuff about being heartbroken but knowing she will be with Jesus.

She got some truly kind and supportive comments, lots of prayers, and this:

Spoiler

I don't know if Gary and Becky are trying to get there.

Edited November 4, 2023 by thoughtful
clarity, correction of when the first post was

[thoughtful]

What do you think is on Gary's mind tonight?

 

Spoiler

What, you were expecting concern for his mother, or his heartbroken sister, who is keeping everyone informed? Nah.

Just weird vagueness implying that people who remind others to set their clocks back somehow don't care about getting to church the next morning.

 

[FiveAcres]

Gary is so weird. This is what I imagine when I read his profound "thoughts."

Spoiler