Dillards 94: After Counting the Cost

[Cam]

If you look at lists, Liam is currently the most popular boys name. If I look around where I live to hear who’s naming their kids what, I don’t hear Billy these days, nickname for William of course, which was quite popular for years. There’s both a William (older) and Liam (younger) in my family. I think it’s normal for the next generation to come up with a  new twist to common names to set them apart from their parents’ generation. 

A classmate married into a family of high stature where the first born sons were all named either A.J. or, of all things, Dewey. She was not going with Dewey, so A.J. it was. Was there a sexual connotation she didn’t like with the second option? Maybe. Just to throw out there that I once had a boss named Dewey (no relation to the above mentioned family) and he was one of the best bosses I ever had. 

Scout was the nickname of the young girl in To Kill a Mockingbird. 

Perhaps Harry is less popular not so much due to Potter but because of so much coverage of the former Prince. 

Perhaps Mabel is a shortened version of Maybelle, as in Maybelle Carter, mother of Country Music (and June Carter Cash),

[viii]

2 hours ago, Cam said:

Perhaps Harry is less popular not so much due to Potter but because of so much coverage of the former Prince. 

He’s still a prince. 

[GreenBeans]

18 hours ago, Cam said:

Some names seem to morph into similar sounding names, making them more contemporary. 

I’ve never thought about it that way, but it makes complete sense.

[Cam]

18 hours ago, BensAllergies said:

We’ve spent the last few months perusing boy name lists, and I was surprised to see that Jack is now a top 20 name. That’s my FIL’s name and I definitely associate it with men in their 50’s or older. We considered Luke and Lucas, which are top names right along with Luca. And interestingly, Liam is #1 but William is still in the top 10. But Mateo is more popular than Matthew by far.

 

My husband worked in male-dominated industries, and if he came home and said his boss’s name was something like Bob or Dale, I knew it was a man over age 50. If the boss was a Justin or Brandon, he wasn’t older than 40.
 

There used to be tons of Robs, Roberts and Bobs, but not so much any more. The name Dave/David was also once very popular but I don’t hear it as much nowadays.  I didn’t have any classmates named Caleb, Ethan, Hunter, Bryce, Riley, Blake, Trevor, Austin…….

[Smee]

As far as old names cycling round as a general principle, I think it depends on the name. Style certainly has something to do with it, and I also think it's more common with girls names than with boys. Boys names either get labelled "classic" and never fall very far out of style (see: anything that was on the guessing lists for William and Kate's royal babies) or are tied to a generation and unlikely to come back into style even when they do die out (e.g. Kevin, Dale). My grandparents were Iris, Joyce, Ronald and Norman. Only one of those four is likely to be found in a preschool today.

On 1/31/2024 at 9:26 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

This probably ages me by I remember when they named their daughter Mabel on “Mad About You” over 2 decades ago. Of course it sounded very weird to most folks back then. No resurgence. But so did Emma on Friends. Yet that became quite popular. 

Did Emma sound that weird on Friends? Maybe to a US audience, but it was #4 in the UK two decades before Friends came out and stayed in the top 20 until the early 2000s, where it dropped a little and now sits somewhere around the 60 mark. A few years ago I was teaching at a high school (in Australia) where in the staffroom the desks were set up so that we had four adult Emmas all next to each other (a history teacher, two English teachers, and a learning support officer). They were all born before Friends, none of them would be retiring any time soon.

Edited February 1 by Smee

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, Smee said:

As far as old names cycling round as a general principle, I think it depends on the name. Style certainly has something to do with it, and I also think it's more common with girls names than with boys. Boys names either get labelled "classic" and never fall very far out of style (see: anything that was on the guessing lists for William and Kate's royal babies) or are tied to a generation and unlikely to come back into style even when they do die out (e.g. Kevin, Dale). My grandparents were Iris, Joyce, Ronald and Norman. Only one of those four is likely to be found in a preschool today.

Did Emma sound that weird on Friends? Maybe to a US audience, but it was #4 in the UK two decades before Friends came out and stayed in the top 20 until the early 2000s, where it dropped a little and now sits somewhere around the 60 mark. A few years ago I was teaching at a high school (in Australia) where in the staffroom the desks were set up so that we had four adult Emmas all next to each other (a history teacher, two English teachers, and a learning support officer). They were all born before Friends, none of them would be retiring any time soon.

No, Emma didn’t sound weird. But it was definitely trending so even more people used it after that. Emma was already trending because Emily was already #1 for years. And people needed an alternative to an extremely popular name. 

[BensAllergies]

I think that Robert/Bob was so overused that I can’t see it coming back to be as popular, but it will always have a place as a family name. I could also see Bobbi becoming a trendy girl name one day.

My next door neighbor’s name is Robert, and when we moved in I noticed that we were getting mail in his name on a rare occasion. I brought it over and that’s when I learned that one of the previous owners of my house was also Robert with the same last name as my neighbor.

I had Liam on my baby boy name list and removed it after I saw how popular it is. My husband is a Jacob and while he says he has never minded his name popularity for his generation, there were other names we liked that were not the #1 name.

[Mama Mia]

I was scrolling through the social security name records and something I found interesting are that the top names are being used by a much smaller percentage of births over time. Especially for boys.  Only Liam, the number 1 boy name for 2022, broke even 1%, and barely. The number one girl name, Olivia, was at just under 1% and  The number 10 names, Theodore and Luna, were both barely at 1/2 of 1%. Altogether the top 10 names made up roughly 8% of boy names and 7% of girls names. So there is a ton of variety in names given. 
Contrast with pre- 2000. The top boy 5-10 boy names were all in the 3 to 4% range, the top few girls names were also over 3%. Much less name variety. 
 

Also huge variation between States in the US.  For example William is the number 1 boy name in Alabama, but way down at 42 in California. A few of the very top names seem to be in the top tier in the states I checked - Liam, Oliver, Sofia, Emma, Charlotte and Mia are probably going to have classmates with the same name wherever they go. But there’s a lot of regional difference.

[Cam]

I thought the name Emma became popular, at least here in the States, after the movie of the same name came out in the 90’s (starring Gwyneth Paltrow). 

Giving one of the “classic” boy names to a baby these days is usually a matter of “this name was also the name of an older male in the family line” rather than “I love the name”, “I like how the name sounds” “He just looked like a Richard” or “I always wanted to name my son John.”

 

On 1/31/2024 at 9:41 AM, viii said:

He’s still a prince. 

Oops, yes, true! 

 

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

I was scrolling through the social security name records and something I found interesting are that the top names are being used by a much smaller percentage of births over time. Especially for boys.  Only Liam, the number 1 boy name for 2022, broke even 1%, and barely. The number one girl name, Olivia, was at just under 1% and  The number 10 names, Theodore and Luna, were both barely at 1/2 of 1%. Altogether the top 10 names made up roughly 8% of boy names and 7% of girls names. So there is a ton of variety in names given. 
Contrast with pre- 2000. The top boy 5-10 boy names were all in the 3 to 4% range, the top few girls names were also over 3%. Much less name variety. 
 

Interesting statistics!

Edited February 1 by Cam

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, BensAllergies said:

I think that Robert/Bob was so overused that I can’t see it coming back to be as popular, but it will always have a place as a family name. I could also see Bobbi becoming a trendy girl name one day.

My next door neighbor’s name is Robert, and when we moved in I noticed that we were getting mail in his name on a rare occasion. I brought it over and that’s when I learned that one of the previous owners of my house was also Robert with the same last name as my neighbor.

I had Liam on my baby boy name list and removed it after I saw how popular it is. My husband is a Jacob and while he says he has never minded his name popularity for his generation, there were other names we liked that were not the #1 name.

There are some boy names that never really became unpopular. They were almost always in the top 100 for decades. Those names are usually considered classic names. Robert, William, John, David, and Michael are some examples. 

[Smee]

8 hours ago, BensAllergies said:

I think that Robert/Bob was so overused that I can’t see it coming back to be as popular, but it will always have a place as a family name. I could also see Bobbi becoming a trendy girl name one day.

I think Bob has sailed as a nickname, but Robert may survive with Rob/Robbie. Much like Will/Liam overtook Bill/Billie for William.

6 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

I was scrolling through the social security name records and something I found interesting are that the top names are being used by a much smaller percentage of births over time. Especially for boys.  Only Liam, the number 1 boy name for 2022, broke even 1%, and barely. The number one girl name, Olivia, was at just under 1% and  The number 10 names, Theodore and Luna, were both barely at 1/2 of 1%. Altogether the top 10 names made up roughly 8% of boy names and 7% of girls names. So there is a ton of variety in names given. 
Contrast with pre- 2000. The top boy 5-10 boy names were all in the 3 to 4% range, the top few girls names were also over 3%. Much less name variety. 
 

Also huge variation between States in the US.  For example William is the number 1 boy name in Alabama, but way down at 42 in California. A few of the very top names seem to be in the top tier in the states I checked - Liam, Oliver, Sofia, Emma, Charlotte and Mia are probably going to have classmates with the same name wherever they go. But there’s a lot of regional difference.

Yeah, that's been a growing trend for a few decades now. Parents don't want to give their kids a "common" name and we now have access to the data, so you see people literally crossing off favourites because they appear in the top 10 or 20. I cared about popularity far too much when I was choosing names for my kids. Hindsight and shit.

 

And definitely regional differences! Even within the same state - Australia doesn't release full national data but NSW releases the top 100 each year. My youngest daughter has two boys called Nixon in her class, and a scroll through the school lists found a few in the grades above and below as well. But when I looked up the NSW data, it's only been in the top 100 once, ranked at 99 (the year after she was born). I remember doing a similar thing when we first moved here and my eldest knew an unusual number of Kobes and Zarlies.

[HeartsAFundie]

On 1/30/2024 at 7:41 PM, Travelfan said:

That’s my first thought when I hear the name Mable.  It was an acronym on the show for Mothers Always Bring Extra Love. Bruce Willis was on thar episode and they asked him for name advice and he said his kids were Rumor, Scout, and Tellulah which caused laughter as they were looking for “normal” names, but then they went with Mable…

And interestingly Bruce now has a daughter named Mabel as well as one named Evelyn with his second wife. 

The older daughters' names were all literary or theater inspired.   Rumer was from author Rumer Godden, Scout from "To Kill A Mockingbird" and Tallulah from actress Tallulah Bankhead.   

Edited February 1 by HeartsAFundie

[patsymae]

On 1/31/2024 at 10:29 AM, GreenBeans said:

I’ve never thought about it that way, but it makes complete sense.

That happens a lot with popular names. Like Katharine became Kay became Kathy became Kate became Kaitlyn and now Katharine is coming back. Elizabeth became Betty/Betsy became Beth/Lisa became Alyssa. Mary became Mariah, LInda became Lindsay, etc., etc. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

On 1/24/2024 at 2:49 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

That happens in the US too. When I was very young, Sophia, Emma, Evelyn, and  Isabella were all considered old fashioned names. But now they aren’t considered old fashioned at all. They are considered  popular and mainstream. 

It really does cycle. We actually ended up crossing Emma and Isabelle off our girl's name list because they were both in the top ten for so long. We were mining family trees for names and mostly going three generations back.

Of course, all three kids' names we picked started zooming up the charts right around then, so *shrug*.

On 1/28/2024 at 7:47 AM, CarrotCake said:

I love oldfashioned names but somehow not all of them, plus some names might be from a different 'era' in different countries. On r/namenerds people seem to love Petra but in here in the Netherlands no one would ever think about naming their kid Petra. 

Petra might have gotten a boost from Jane the Virgin a few years back.

[Cam]

On 2/1/2024 at 9:59 PM, NotQuiteMotY said:

 

Petra might have gotten a boost from Jane the Virgin a few years back.

I thought the woman who played Petra was strikingly beautiful. I like the name. To me, ending a name with an A, like Petra, Reba, Alanna, gives it an upbeat energy. Alexa vs Alex. Eva vs Eve. Bella vs Belle, etc. All are nice names but have different energy.

Back in the day, babies would usually be given a formal name, like “Elizabeth”, on their birth certificate but be called a nickname in every day life like Beth, Lizzie, Betty, ect. In today’s world, many parents cut right to the chase and use what was once considered a nickname as the full name, for example, “Jackie” instead of Jacqueline appears on the birth certificate. “Tory” for Victoria.

I also feel like I didn’t know too many girls with boy sounding names growing up, but I was around a lot of Catholics when I was younger which probably skewed to Biblical women’s names. It wasn’t till I went to public high school that I had a girl classmate named Jaimee and another named Nikki. That was new to me. (I like the names but never cared for either girl). Years later, I’d  hear what used to be associated as boys’ names like Stevie, Riley and Sidney being used for girls, but such a trend was nonexistent in my tiny part of the world as a kid. I generally like them, but one name that’s never sounded right to me for a girl is Michael, and I know three women with the name. One of them spells it Mikal.

Edited February 5 by Cam

[patsymae]

One trend that still seems to hold is that people don't like unisex names (and I'm from the generation that loved them) and that once a "male" name starts to be used a lot for girls people drop it for males. Old examples are names like Leslie and Evelyn, which were male names (yes, I know not everybody and there are males with these and other names I'll bring up). Kelly, Kelsey, Hailey, Morgan, Robin, etc. have become much more associated with girl's names. Taylor is now mostly for girls while Tyler is more for males. At least in the US, society is more comfortable with unisex names when they are nicknames--Chris, Frankie, Jackie--for an identifiable gender-specific longer name. Then again, the last decade or so has seen gender fluidity more common, so maybe that's changing and I'm just a dinosaur using old research.

[Maggie Mae]

On 1/28/2024 at 7:13 AM, HeartsAFundie said:

I actually graduated from high school with a Petra.  I believe her mother was German.  This was over 40 years ago.  

Also graduated with a Petra, but more recently than 40 years ago. I believe her mother was from the Netherlands, though she could have been German. I think they moved to Germany for a spell while we were growing up, but she came back before high school. No idea that Petra wasn't a popular name anywhere. 

[Cam]

10 hours ago, patsymae said:

One trend that still seems to hold is that people don't like unisex names (and I'm from the generation that loved them) and that once a "male" name starts to be used a lot for girls people drop it for males. Old examples are names like Leslie and Evelyn, which were male names (yes, I know not everybody and there are males with these and other names I'll bring up). Kelly, Kelsey, Hailey, Morgan, Robin, etc. have become much more associated with girl's names. Taylor is now mostly for girls while Tyler is more for males. At least in the US, society is more comfortable with unisex names when they are nicknames--Chris, Frankie, Jackie--for an identifiable gender-specific longer name. Then again, the last decade or so has seen gender fluidity more common, so maybe that's changing and I'm just a dinosaur using old research.

I tend to agree with your assessment here. I went to school with a boy named Kelly and one named Robin. One of my boyfriends had the middle name Leslie. There’s older male actors: Kelsey Grammar, Leslie Nielson and Morgan Freeman, but I don’t hear younger boys with these first names. 

Remember the androgynous SNL character “Pat”? (played by Julia Sweeney). The spin was that no one knew whether this person was male or female, and the name was purposely no clue as it could refer to either. At one point, Pat has a love interest named “Chris” (played by Dana Carvey) whose gender is also unknown. 

Edited February 6 by Cam

[Smee]

A few years ago I had a class with a male Courtney AND a male Lauren. That was unusual. I definitely agree that "unisex" names usually start off as names for boys that people start using for girls, and once the swing is about 60% girls people gradually stop using them for boys. Give it another few decades and we'll see if there are fewer and fewer boys named Elliot, Quinn, Darcy or Blair. I am seeing a lot more "new" names (Navy, Royal, Phoenix) or nature names (River, Storm) becoming the choice for parents who want something less gendered. It'll be interesting to see what happens when Gen Z start having babies and naming them.

[Mrs Ms]

42 minutes ago, Smee said:

A few years ago I had a class with a male Courtney AND a male Lauren. That was unusual. I definitely agree that "unisex" names usually start off as names for boys that people start using for girls, and once the swing is about 60% girls people gradually stop using them for boys. Give it another few decades and we'll see if there are fewer and fewer boys named Elliot, Quinn, Darcy or Blair. I am seeing a lot more "new" names (Navy, Royal, Phoenix) or nature names (River, Storm) becoming the choice for parents who want something less gendered. It'll be interesting to see what happens when Gen Z start having babies and naming them.

If I remember correctly, you are Australien? So I would boldly assume that little Courtney had parents who are racing fans. (James) Courtney is talked about using his surname so often that I forget it isn’t his first name regularly 🤷‍♀️
Definitely seems that the only way a traditionally male name that has been turned “girly” can ever be used for males again is if a (prominent) male sports star has and uses it.  

[Cam]

John Wayne’s real name was Marion. I never heard another male with that name; the female version is usually spelled Marian. Carroll O’Connor (Archie Bunker) and hunky rock star Lindsey Buckingham, whose famous rock star counterpart is of course a woman named Stevie, both have feminine sounding first names I don’t hear boys using these days.

Which reminds me of neighbors we once had who were a younger couple. His name was Courtney and her name was Billie. My other neighbor pointed out to me that the guy had a girl name and the girl had a guy name.

 

Edited February 7 by Cam

[Sullie06]

4 hours ago, Smee said:

A few years ago I had a class with a male Courtney AND a male Lauren. That was unusual. I definitely agree that "unisex" names usually start off as names for boys that people start using for girls, and once the swing is about 60% girls people gradually stop using them for boys. Give it another few decades and we'll see if there are fewer and fewer boys named Elliot, Quinn, Darcy or Blair. I am seeing a lot more "new" names (Navy, Royal, Phoenix) or nature names (River, Storm) becoming the choice for parents who want something less gendered. It'll be interesting to see what happens when Gen Z start having babies and naming them.

Courtney is one of those names I've seen on more than one male and always was like "this not the norm." I knew two guys named Courtney when I went to college is Alabama, USA. One was our dorm RA and another was in some of my classes. And currently our security guard in our office is a male named Courtney. 

[Bassett Lady]

8 minutes ago, Cam said:

I never heard another male with that name

I had an Uncle Marion. (He was one of my favorites.)

 

All of his sons and daughters had unambiguous names: Benjamin, William, Elizabeth, and Rose. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Once a male name gets popular with baby girls, it stops being a male name. It’s not actually considered unisex for most people. Because it’s almost as if the culture at large sees the name as tainted. Yuck! Now it’s a girl name! Can’t give it to my son now! 
 

Examples: 

Ashley, Evelyn, Courtney, Shannon, Aubrey, Kelly, Addison, and it’s even becoming that way with Taylor. You’ll find many more female Taylors than male Taylors these days. And I’m guessing it will keep going that way in the years to come. 

[Travelfan]

When I was in elementary school there was a boy in my class named Courtney. He was the only Courtney I knew until I became an adult. I just assumed it was a boy name. The first girl Courtney I met, I thought she had a boy name!  It took me meeting a few girl Courtney’s before I made the switch in my head to realize he had had a girl name. I have seen on fb that he goes by a “boy” name now, I’m assuming his middle name.