John and Alyssa Webster 14: Is It Time to Say the Family Is Complete?

[Expectopatronus]

21 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

The co-op is made up of other parents who teach what the other parents don't want to teach. Alyssa said she and a friend are teaching the children in the co-op the Story of the World curriculum and that Allie (maybe Lexie?) are in the class. I hate to think what the other classes would look like.

As most would expect, it is a Christian curriculum that teaches world history and culture on a very white/eurocentric and American (US) viewpoint. The reviews claim a lot of inaccuracies. 

"For Macbeth it states: 'Queen Elizabeth probably enjoyed this play...' She died 1603, Macbeth first performed 1606, but the dead Queen enjoyed it!"

Some claimed in the reviews that it wasn't religious or Biblical enough. For example, there is a chapter on primitive man that apparently seems less creation story than they would have liked. People wanted the books to start with Adam and Eve. 

 

I’m curious as to how it addresses colonization, the intentional genocides of Indigenous peoples, the slave trade and other horrific historical acts. The only critical review I could find on Amazon was that it didn’t follow the Bible accurately enough and the reviewer told her kids that only the Bible is historical accurate (my eyes rolled out of my head). 

[FluffySnowball]

2 hours ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

Interesting! I should have asked you or one of our other German FJ'ers if it was actually true; I was just repeating what a different prof had told me and a few friends about the German prof.

Well, I’m sure some people think like that and I hope my reply didn’t come across as criticism of what you wrote. That wasn’t my intention. But overall, my impression is that both fields of work garner a lot of respect. 

Edited August 5 by FluffySnowball

[4boysmum]

I use Story of the World and I actually really like it.  It's not perfect, no curriculum is, but I have been very impressed with how much history my kids are learning.  Honestly, they have learned about things I never heard about when I was in school, and I received what I thought was a quite good public school education.

The author is Christian but does a decent job of including lots of world cultures and religions and treating them respectfully.  The first volume (ancient history) does include chapters on Abraham, the Exodus, and Jesus.  But it's done in such a way that religious homeschoolers can include them and secular homeschoolers could skip those chapters without it affecting the rest of the curriculum.

We are an interfaith Catholic-Muslim household and it was very important to me to teach my kids history in a way that would respect their entire, diverse heritage. And I was pleasantly surprised at how well SOtW covered the life of Muhammad and the beginnings of Islam.  The Crusades were treated pretty even-handedly.  And it definitely didn't shy away from covering the slave trade or the plight of indigenous people under European colonization in the later volumes.

Honestly, one of the things I liked about it is that conservative Christians complain about it not being Christian enough, and committed secular home schoolers complain about Christianity being in there at all.  If you've annoyed the extremists on both sides, you're probably a good fit for the folks in the middle seeking balance (i.e. me)!

On the other hand, like any curriculum materials, it is what you make it.  If you're just reading the core text in a weekly co op you'll probably have a decently broad, but somewhat superficial, grasp of world history.  There is a pretty hefty companion book with map work, craft activities, and supplemental reading lists. We have taken the time to borrow the reading lists from the library (thank you, interlibrary loan).  I don't have the kids read everything because there are only so many hours in a day, but it has been great for exposing my kids to myths and folk tales from around the world. I somehow doubt Alyssa Webster is going to read her kids a picture book adaptation of the Ramayana when they cover ancient India.  But I was impressed that a Christian homeschooler's book gave me resource recommendations to do that with my kids.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Alyssa is starting the school year. And it’s very obvious she wants her girls done with school asap. 

Alllie age 9 is starting 5th grade. Lexi age 7 is starting 3rd grade. Zoey age 6 is starting 2nd grade. And Maci age 3 is starting kindergarten. And none of them are about to have a birthday. They all have birthdays between January and April. Maci starting Kindergarten is a full 2 years early since she won’t even turn 4 until Feb. I’m sorry but she wants her girls to grow up way faster than their actual age. 

[Sk8ter]

8 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Alyssa is starting the school year. And it’s very obvious she wants her girls done with school asap. 

Alllie age 9 is starting 5th grade. Lexi age 7 is starting 3rd grade. Zoey age 6 is starting 2nd grade. And Maci age 3 is starting kindergarten. And none of them are about to have a birthday. They all have birthdays between January and April. Maci starting Kindergarten is a full 2 years early since she won’t even turn 4 until Feb. I’m sorry but she wants her girls to grow up way faster than their actual age. 

I teach 5th grade. My 10 and 11 year olds are barely old enough to handle the rigor of our curriculum. But to each his own. 

I think it's "hurry up and graduate and get married". 

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 minutes ago, Sk8ter said:

I teach 5th grade. My 10 and 11 year olds are barely old enough to handle the rigor of our curriculum. But to each his own. 

I think it's "hurry up and graduate and get married". 

You can put them 2 grades ahead of you don’t test them or teach them thoroughly. I’m sure they will graduate with a very shitty education at age 16.

[Kiki03910]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You can put them 2 grades ahead of you don’t test them or teach them thoroughly. I’m sure they will graduate with a very shitty education at age 16.

That seems to be their goal, really.

[Kiki03910]

13 hours ago, 4boysmum said:

The author is Christian but does a decent job of including lots of world cultures and religions and treating them respectfully.  The first volume (ancient history) does include chapters on Abraham, the Exodus, and Jesus.

Abraham, the Exodus, and Jesus lack almost any (if any!) verifiable historicity and should not be taught as history in any context other than being presented as stories that appear in a couple old religious tomes. Faith is one thing. History has an entirely different definition that is based in facts and evidence. It's distressing to see the two conflated and presented as equivalent.

[AussieKrissy]

On 8/6/2024 at 1:24 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Alyssa is starting the school year. And it’s very obvious she wants her girls done with school asap. 

Alllie age 9 is starting 5th grade. Lexi age 7 is starting 3rd grade. Zoey age 6 is starting 2nd grade. And Maci age 3 is starting kindergarten. And none of them are about to have a birthday. They all have birthdays between January and April. Maci starting Kindergarten is a full 2 years early since she won’t even turn 4 until Feb. I’m sorry but she wants her girls to grow up way faster than their actual age. 

Post made me sooooooo sad and furious 

Can she not see how bad this makes her look a three year old in Kindy. That infuriated me 

Let kids be little, it obvious all kids sitting in one room sckoolen means that she has more time for herself and rhett 

A three year old should be digging in the dirt and singing nursery rhymes and doing basic preschool lessons not Kindy classes and to think this child will be in first grade at four. I would be ok if she was in "kindy" until she was five but we know that won't happen.

This women gives me the impression that she had kids because she was expected to and wanted a doll. 

I think she would have have been a way better mother had she been able to be a normal person. doing the teen prom queen, college and then work then at 25 thirty she could have settled and became the perfect christian trad mom of no more that 4 kids bussing them to and from their private christian school and their extra curriculars. She would have been a better mother

I think Alyssa has never had a life and is so desperate for her kids to be grown up so she can live her life with less investment in them.

I am being harsh I know her kids are clean well fed and well loved but that post just enraged me and at least educated to some degree. and they are her kids and her choices go.... I am just being a judgey annoyed cow. 

I remember my baby at three and she was a baby I remember the choice I made to keep my child back until she was almost 6 to start kindy as I thought she was to little to start at 4 turning 5 two months after the school year started. I remember thinking that I would prefer her older when she started and finished High School. 

All of this and my child was in day care and preschool since she was 8 months old and even at four would have been way more socialised and prepped for school and learning than any of her children ever will be. 

My child is 8 and is in year 2 and could have been in year 3 

It makes me sad to see her girls being forced to grow up 

I would understand if her children were some kinds of genius that could skip grades but I don't think that is the case.

TLDR The post of the kids starting school so young really irritated me. 

 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Post made me sooooooo sad and furious 

Can she not see how bad this makes her look a three year old in Kindy. That infuriated me 

Let kids be little, it obvious all kids sitting in one room sckoolen means that she has more time for herself and rhett 

A three year old should be digging in the dirt and singing nursery rhymes and doing basic preschool lessons not Kindy classes and to think this child will be in first grade at four. I would be ok if she was in "kindy" until she was five but we know that won't happen.

This women gives me the impression that she had kids because she was expected to and wanted a doll. 

I think she would have have been a way better mother had she been able to be a normal person. doing the teen prom queen, college and then work then at 25 thirty she could have settled and became the perfect christian trad mom of no more that 4 kids bussing them to and from their private christian school and their extra curriculars. She would have been a better mother

I think Alyssa has never had a life and is so desperate for her kids to be grown up so she can live her life with less investment in them.

I am being harsh I know her kids are clean well fed and well loved but that post just enraged me and at least educated to some degree. and they are her kids and her choices go.... I am just being a judgey annoyed cow. 

I remember my baby at three and she was a baby I remember the choice I made to keep my child back until she was almost 6 to start kindy as I thought she was to little to start at 4 turning 5 two months after the school year started. I remember thinking that I would prefer her older when she started and finished High School. 

All of this and my child was in day care and preschool since she was 8 months old and even at four would have been way more socialised and prepped for school and learning than any of her children ever will be. 

My child is 8 and is in year 2 and could have been in year 3 

It makes me sad to see her girls being forced to grow up 

I would understand if her children were some kinds of genius that could skip grades but I don't think that is the case.

TLDR The post of the kids starting school so young really irritated me. 

 

 

Plus she just parks them in front of screens. No way her 3 year old would tolerate that. 

[Coconut Flan]

I wonder how much of the curriculum they are missing because itt's inappropriate so they will have gaps from things that made no sense at the time or that they did not fully absorb.

[Expectopatronus]

If Alyssa is using Abeka for the younger kids, kindergarten is a two year level (K4 and K5). I used the K4 phonics videos with my daughter and they were pretty good BUT she was attending full time nursery as well and we only used the 25 free hours so we started in spring which meant she had turned four. No way would I have parked a three year old in front of a screen for hours. 15-20 minutes of phonics while I make dinner, yes but my house is open concept so I do the interactive parts with her and we sing the songs in the car. My daughter is ready for kindergarten this year (she’ll be five in December) but was absolutely not ready at this time last year. I wonder if Alyssa realizes that Allie might be struggling with math concepts because she isn’t developmentally ready for the work. Changing curriculum might not be the fix she is hoping for. Brain development can’t be rushed and one criticism a number of reviews list with Abeka math is that it is too much, too soon at the elementary level. So she’s using a math curriculum that rushes concepts anyway and teaching it a full year younger. Recipe for disaster. 

[GreenBeans]

10 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Plus she just parks them in front of screens. No way her 3 year old would tolerate that. 

My son is 3 (almost 4) and so far he’s been getting zero screen time. It’s inevitable at some point, but we try to delay it as long as we can, because he benefits so much more from real life interaction.

He loves letters and numbers, not because we are drilling it into him, he’s just curious by nature. He counts everything, does very basic calculations (“we have 4 muffins, so we can each have one and have one left”), recognizes most letters and some words. He loves books, and will choose a trip to the library over a trip to the playground at any time! He would probably do well in an actual school setting, he’s really good at focusing on one task for an extended period of time. But I don’t think this is typical for a 3 year old. 

Here in Germany school doesn’t start until 6-7 years old, and kids are only required to recognize and write their own name, but not actually know letters or read. Our son’s birthday is just after the cut off date, so unless we have him start school early, he will be almost 7 by the time he starts school. I can’t imagine having him in daycare for another 3 years when he’s so academically curious already, but we’ll wait and see.

In any case, we will do whatever is best for HIM - and not what fits our schedule best or is the least work for us. How these fundies claim they love children, and then treat them like pets or another hobby, with the prime aim of making them look good and not interfering with their lives or social media sales gig is beyond me.

[Ashley Ocean]

On 8/3/2024 at 11:01 PM, marmalade said:

I'm surprised that the co-op lets her "teach" anything. But cultures and history? Just no. 

Thanks to Kelly's tutelage, Alyssa can probably give detailed instruction on the culture of the Confederacy.

[tanba]

What I really “enjoyed” about the home school video: Alyssa noted that Lexie (second girl) is more of a hands-on learner, so the abeka curriculum Would not work for her, probably. So Alyssa decided to use a different curriculum for Lexie (coincidentally, it’s the same curriculum she will be using for ally, great individualization). Now is the new curriculum more hands-on? Only if you define “write in workbook” as hands-on (which I absolutely do not). 
 

I just cannot fathom a plan that sees a 9- and 7-year old every morning taking their books out, seeing what is written on the calendar and then working through these books. In my mind, the new curriculum honestly seems like a downgrade, since they used to at least have some visual and auditory stimuli (the DVDs), while the new math seems to be completely in a book+workbook. She also specifically mentioned math as one of the things Alyssa would be writing down pages for the kids to do, so I guess she will not be doing it with them. 
 

However, she’s bringing a lot of great variety into these kids’ lives: they can read something, or listen to the audiobook version. Also, they can also listen to these CDs in the living room together, sounds really engaging.

the one advantage is that it seems much more difficult for Alyssa to be completely checked out with the new way of doing things, as every week, she needs to put down what the girls are supposed to do that week. Now, I still imagine by week three, she will just put down “next 3 pages”, but it will be more of an effort to ignore. 
 

I am so sad for these kids, and situations like these make me think Germany might not be wrong in mandating mandatory schooling. 

 

 

[Expectopatronus]

20 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Post made me sooooooo sad and furious 

Can she not see how bad this makes her look a three year old in Kindy. That infuriated me 

Let kids be little, it obvious all kids sitting in one room sckoolen means that she has more time for herself and rhett 

A three year old should be digging in the dirt and singing nursery rhymes and doing basic preschool lessons not Kindy classes and to think this child will be in first grade at four. I would be ok if she was in "kindy" until she was five but we know that won't happen.

This women gives me the impression that she had kids because she was expected to and wanted a doll. 

I think she would have have been a way better mother had she been able to be a normal person. doing the teen prom queen, college and then work then at 25 thirty she could have settled and became the perfect christian trad mom of no more that 4 kids bussing them to and from their private christian school and their extra curriculars. She would have been a better mother

I think Alyssa has never had a life and is so desperate for her kids to be grown up so she can live her life with less investment in them.

I am being harsh I know her kids are clean well fed and well loved but that post just enraged me and at least educated to some degree. and they are her kids and her choices go.... I am just being a judgey annoyed cow. 

I remember my baby at three and she was a baby I remember the choice I made to keep my child back until she was almost 6 to start kindy as I thought she was to little to start at 4 turning 5 two months after the school year started. I remember thinking that I would prefer her older when she started and finished High School. 

All of this and my child was in day care and preschool since she was 8 months old and even at four would have been way more socialised and prepped for school and learning than any of her children ever will be. 

My child is 8 and is in year 2 and could have been in year 3 

It makes me sad to see her girls being forced to grow up 

I would understand if her children were some kinds of genius that could skip grades but I don't think that is the case.

TLDR The post of the kids starting school so young really irritated me. 

 

 

What I love about this is that your decision was based on what was best for your daughter, not a desire to push her through early or have bragging rights that your daughter is soooooo advanced for her age. 
Where I live, you can’t wait a year to start your kid in school. Parents who try to do that find that their child is placed in grade 1 and not allowed to attend kindergarten. We have social promotion until high school so kids also can’t fail K-8. 

[Bassett Lady]

4 hours ago, tanba said:

situations like these make me think Germany might not be wrong in mandating mandatory schooling. 

Folks like this are why all kids should take yearly exams to assess adequate yearly progress, submit a yearly physical, hearing, and eye exam. 
 

We have homeschooled all our kids and they have all rolled into University over prepared for the academic rigor and emotionally equipped to be functional young adults. 
 

There are so many of us who provide top tier educational experiences for our kids. In the admirable effort of protecting some kids from educational and emotional abuse,  let’s not make a blanket ban on all homeschool.

I would much rather see ALL CHILDREN in the United States making adequate yearly progress and for the kids which are NOT, whether Public, private, or homeschool, let’s put procedures in place to protect and educate all the children. 
 

 

[yeahthatsme74]

30 minutes ago, Bassett Lady said:

Folks like this are why all kids should take yearly exams to assess adequate yearly progress, submit a yearly physical, hearing, and eye exam. 
 

We have homeschooled all our kids and they have all rolled into University over prepared for the academic rigor and emotionally equipped to be functional young adults. 
 

There are so many of us who provide top tier educational experiences for our kids. In the admirable effort of protecting some kids from educational and emotional abuse,  let’s not make a blanket ban on all homeschool.

I would much rather see ALL CHILDREN in the United States making adequate yearly progress and for the kids which are NOT, whether Public, private, or homeschool, let’s put procedures in place to protect and educate all the children. 
 

 

Same with my homeschooled kids. But they also took music classes at our local high school, then dual enrolled in community college senior year. I've been homeschooling my youngest but have realized his learning disabilities are beyond what I can handle at home, so he'll be starting special ed at public school in a couple weeks.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I honestly feel like there are two types of homeschoolers. Those who homeschool to give their kids a good education. And those who homeschool to protect their children from the world’s influence. Which means the actual education isn’t their #1 priority. 

[Expectopatronus]

My cousins homeschool because they are convinced that there are no schools, public, private or parochial that have anything to offer. They have stated that they don’t trust any teachers to be adequately skilled and that there are no children outside of their circle of homeschool friends that they want to befriend their kids. I don’t deny that they are using valid books and their kids are at grade level but I find their principles to be a bit arrogant. 

[Bassett Lady]

23 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I honestly feel like there are two types of homeschoolers. Those who homeschool to give their kids a good education. And those who homeschool to protect their children from the world’s influence. Which means the actual education isn’t their #1 priority. 

We ended up homeschooling the oldest because my husband’s job kept relocating us every 18 months. Since American schools aren’t standardized, the kids were repeating some things and missing others. I felt like I had to homeschool them. Thankfully, we found we loved it and our results were spectacular. 
 

The youngest Basset pup is so much younger than the others that I planned to send her to school for socialization. She did public pre-K but arrived as a four year old who could read novels and wrote poems in cursive handwriting. She was adding and subtracting in her head faster than her teacher could use her calculator. Academic testing revealed she is profoundly gifted. Our district didn’t have any services for her. The teacher and guidance counselor suggested private school or homeschool. 
 

So, we have spent years paying for music lessons, voice lessons, dance classes, scouts, and I have worked so hard to keep her intellectually challenged and emotionally engaged. She started taking her first classes at the University at 13. Now, at 15 she takes about half of her academic classes at the University. By 16 she will be a full time student there but will live at home, and have her social life with kids her own age in music, dance, church, choir, and volunteering at the food bank. 
 

With my degrees in science and education I have endeavored to help homeschooling parents who mean well and to intercede for those kids who have parents who don’t have their best interests at heart. 

[Cupcake79]

To me it is really weird that there is no standardization in the US. Is there some kind of standardization of education statewise? I live in Finland where homeschooling is very rare, but it is allowed. I am not quite sure what the correct term is, but it is not mandatory to go to school, but it is mandatory to get a basic education. I am by no means an expert as our kids have attended public school. With that said I know one family that at least started out homeschooling, not sure if they still do. I used to know the mother as a young adult, when we we're studying, but she does not live in the same area anymore so I rarely see her. Their oldest daughter had to take yearly exams to prove that she is learning what she is supposed to. They co-operate with the local school, which provide them with books and workbooks if they like. I also know of one other homeschooling family, but that is the extent of it. There are also not a lot of private schools in the country and none, that I am aware of, in our region. Practically all children attend public school.

[Jana814]

I’m from a very well off area of New Jersey.  No one homeschools. In my area families live in smaller houses because they want to live in the area for the great school systems. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Jana814 said:

I’m from a very well off area of New Jersey.  No one homeschools. In my area families live in smaller houses because they want to live in the area for the great school systems. 

I live in a one of the best school districts too. Which means higher taxes. Yet our neighbor homeschools. My son plays with their son and they are very nice. You can tell they are the good homeschoolers. But my husband and I are always like, “how can they stand to pay these high taxes and homeschool?!” Lol. We’ve lived here since 2010 and we didn’t have a kid in school until 2018. We were like, finally after paying these taxes! I’m only partly joking though. Since I know the high taxes go to other good things that we do use. We love our neighborhood so it’s worth it. I assume our neighbors who homeschool feel the same way. 

[lumpentheologie]

Many fundie parents with higher education have come to think of 99.9% of colleges and universities (even Christian ones) as liberal brainwashing machines/pits of sin that they were lucky to come out of with their salvation intact. They think they’re sparing their children by keeping them out of it. 

I recommend hate-reading the popular right wing book Domestic Extremist: A Practical Guide to Winning the Culture War by Peachy Keenan (a pen name) for more on this. She’s Catholic so somewhat more education friendly but wow is the bar below ground.