Pearls 2: Michael, Shoshanna, et al

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

Didn't she also have a successful herb business? 

Yes, she did. I think she sold her bulk herb business years ago. But she’s had plenty of money for awhile now. I don’t think she’s hurting that bad financially. 

26 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

It's possible as well that most of their downline chose James over her. Like if they were under both her and James, they may have decided to stay with him. 

Jill is definitely still under him. 

[hoipolloi]

Actually thought to google my question about Plexus downlines in divorce, and the answers are interesting.

In their 2024 policy document, Plexus says the following:

Quote

Marriage. Husbands and wives, common-law couples or domestic partners (collectively, “spouses”) can each have a Brand Ambassadorship as long as one spouse is the sponsor of the other. Once [sic] exception is if two Brand Ambassadors, with two different sponsors, marry during their term of the Brand Ambassadorship, they will be allowed to keep their original Brand Ambassadorship. However, all other conditions of the Beneficial Interest rules of the Agreement apply to both Brand Ambassadorships.

So, did James & Shoshanna each have a Brand Ambassadorship before they got together or did they start with Plexus after their common-law relationship began in 2004? If so, did one of them sponsor the other? The policy statement goes into considerable detail about Beneficial Interests but does not say a lot about divorce:

Quote

In the event of a divorce or legal separation, the Brand Ambassador should contact Plexus’ Compliance Department. Plexus may require court documents relating to such action or a settlement agreement signed by both parties as to the Beneficial Interests of the Brand Ambassadorship.

Re: herb store. Shoshanna started the Bulk Herb Store before marriage & they ran it together for a while but sold it some years ago.

Edited Thursday at 02:07 AM by hoipolloi

[TrueRebel1]

2 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

So, did James & Shoshanna each have a Brand Ambassadorship before they got together or did they start with Plexus after their common-law relationship began in 2004? If so, did one of them sponsor the other? 

I'm quite confident that Shoshanna started selling Plexus 2015-ish. It was while she still owned the Bulk Herb Store -- I think most of her Plexus team came from her BHS customers. I remember when there was a Plexus page on the BHS site. This would have been a few years before she and James legally married. I don't recall hearing of James' Plexus business until 2018-ish.  

[Ozlsn]

17 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m honestly wondering if they plan on keeping him there until he’s on death’s door. Then sending him home to die away from their facility. That way they can blame a hospice for killing him.

Most likely, and at that point they'll scrub him from their media as well.

11 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

She has been promoting plexus since her divorce. But she’s such a higher up, that she can just sit back and wait for all the checks to roll in. Which is just so shitty. How can anyone live with themselves if they are just making money even though they aren’t putting any work into it. While they know lots in their downline are struggling to make any money at all. 

Well a lot of landlords manage that way, and certainly a lot of long term generational wealth is entirely built on that premise. I'd be fascinated to know how many of the 1% even pretend they work, let alone actually do so.

9 hours ago, TrueRebel1 said:

I wonder if these incomes were not ever considered joint property. I believe Tennessee is not a community property state anyway.

I got curious about this, googled and no it isn't. However it is a marital property state:

"In Tennessee, anything acquired during marriage by either partner, is considered marital property. 

This refers to more than just your paycheck, but also includes real property, businesses, investments, credit cards, loans—essentially any kind of increase or decrease to your family unit. Whatever it is, it belongs to both of you, regardless of whose name it’s under."

So if Shoshanna sold the herb business after she was in a marriage recognised under Tennesse law that money would be marital property. Not as sure about Plexus downlines but certainly the income earned by either of them would be considered marital income, and split equitably (or as equitably as you get when the law is heavily involved, and more so when one party has more money to spend on a lawyer.)

[JermajestyDuggar]

This sounds sort of out there but I consider Shoshanna a “nepo baby” of the fundie world. I personally think her success with the bulk herb store and plexus are partly due to nepotism. I am not saying she didn’t do any work. I’m sure she did. However I think she got lucky that she had a built in audience because her parents are famous amongst fundies. So would her bulk herb store and plexus have been as successful if she had completely unknown parents? I doubt it. 

[MariaariaM]

14 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This sounds sort of out there but I consider Shoshanna a “nepo baby” of the fundie world. I personally think her success with the bulk herb store and plexus are partly due to nepotism. I am not saying she didn’t do any work. I’m sure she did. However I think she got lucky that she had a built in audience because her parents are famous amongst fundies. So would her bulk herb store and plexus have been as successful if she had completely unknown parents? I doubt it. 

I never read "The vision" but did follow along with a thorough, multi-part review of it. It's an inane story featuring clear avatars of Michael, Debi, and Shoshanna but none of the other kids. The Shoshanna insert is basically a goddess among humans so I'm sure the senior Pearls preferred and supported her over her siblings irl as well. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, MariaariaM said:

I never read "The vision" but did follow along with a thorough, multi-part review of it. It's an inane story featuring clear avatars of Michael, Debi, and Shoshanna but none of the other kids. The Shoshanna insert is basically a goddess among humans so I'm sure the senior Pearls preferred and supported her over her siblings irl as well. 

She definitely seems like the favorite. 

[hoipolloi]

6 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

So if Shoshanna sold the herb business after she was in a marriage recognised under Tennesse law that money would be marital property. Not as sure about Plexus downlines but certainly the income earned by either of them would be considered marital income, and split equitably (or as equitably as you get when the law is heavily involved, and more so when one party has more money to spend on a lawyer.)

According to TN business records, the Bulk Herb Store was established in 2006 and dissolved as a corporation in 2021. James is listed as the agent.

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

So would her bulk herb store and plexus have been as successful if she had completely unknown parents? I doubt it. 

I agree. It seems highly likely that her downline was initially comprised of NGJ leghumpers. After all, if youʻre stupid & evil enough to buy the Pearlsʻ child-beating manual, youʻre almost certainly stupid enough to buy Plexus.

 

2 hours ago, MariaariaM said:

The Shoshanna insert is basically a goddess among humans

Yeah, as seen on social media, she seems to be the golden child who is allowed to do many things that Michael and Debi have condemned for decades. They call anyone else who does them a reprobate & unbeliever. Of course, this could also just be part of the basic fundie life principle, "Do as I say and not as I do," which the Pearls have made into an art form.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Ugh they are selling stuff and spending every last dollar on these scammers. And he could end up dying after all of it. Then how will she support the kids? Plexus? Yeah right. 

[marmalade]

Of course those shysters want to keep him there for more "treatment." What happens when he gets home uncured? Will they turn back to conventional medicine (provided they have insurance)? Or will they just let him waste away since they're now broke? 

[Bethy]

On 6/27/2024 at 12:13 PM, hoipolloi said:

Yeah, as seen on social media, she seems to be the golden child who is allowed to do many things that Michael and Debi have condemned for decades. They call anyone else who does them a reprobate & unbeliever. Of course, this could also just be part of the basic fundie life principle, "Do as I say and not as I do," which the Pearls have made into an art form.

I think they maybe rested on their laurels once they successfully got her married off. Michael wrote an article called "Dad's Daughter" in the spring of 2006, about 18 months after Shoshanna's wedding, and he seemed very confident he'd done it all right. Around that time there was also an article saying his children were all in covenant marriages and would never divorce. 

[KWLand]

They are having their 16 year old go be with him and drive him home?  what if he dies when she’s down there?  what if her last memories is him sick and her not being able to do anything?  I just can’t imagine that a 16 year old being the primary caregiver in a country away from rest of the family is a good idea.  

One who can take a break, be with friends and have her support sys near-yeah that could work, but the only so far away.  Poor kid.  

[hoipolloi]

50 minutes ago, Bethy said:

Michael wrote an article called "Dad's Daughter" in the spring of 2006, about 18 months after Shoshanna's wedding, and he seemed very confident he'd done it all right.

He sure did:

Quote

Sorry, sons-in-law, but you didn’t marry me. You married my daughters whom I had trained so I could trust their choice, not mine! As I look at them now, I can see that each couple is perfectly suited. They are all delightfully happy and holy. Now I find it absolutely amazing that parents would think that they are wise enough to choose for their children – but then I sure thought I was. Before my sons found their own mates, I was actively seeking out and arranging for them to meet girls that I thought were absolutely perfect. They were great choices for my personality and preferences, but not for the boys. Now that they are both happily married, I can so easily see that their spouses are just perfect for them, but I couldn’t see it before they were married. 

Re: Justin Brand. The whole thing is a nightmare. 

Meanwhile, Shoshanna is ranting about people criticizing others (her???) for immodest swimwear:

Then, in another corner of social media, the NGJ FB page has announced a forthcoming new edition of CTBHM in which Mike & Debi will provide stern guidance on modesty:

Spoiler

Are they talking about Shoshanna?

[Ozlsn]

4 hours ago, KWLand said:

They are having their 16 year old go be with him and drive him home?  what if he dies when she’s down there?  what if her last memories is him sick and her not being able to do anything?  I just can’t imagine that a 16 year old being the primary caregiver in a country away from rest of the family is a good idea.  

One who can take a break, be with friends and have her support sys near-yeah that could work, but the only so far away.  Poor kid.  

What if he deteriorates and someone has to make medical and other decisions? Seriously it feels like every single step they've taken with this has been poorly thought out.

 

5 hours ago, Bethy said:

Around that time there was also an article saying his children were all in covenant marriages and would never divorce. 

So he's about as good a prophet as Harold Camping. 

[MariaariaM]

2 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

So he's about as good a prophet as Harold Camping. 

Didn't the Bible have something to say about false prophets? Had to do with geology, I think. I wonder how literalist they are about that one. 

 

(I know: they're just going to say they misinterpreted the message or weren't speaking for God in that specific moment... Liars can always find an excuse.)

[Howl]

On 6/27/2024 at 8:16 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

This sounds sort of out there but I consider Shoshanna a “nepo baby” of the fundie world...I think she got lucky that she had a built in audience because her parents are famous amongst fundies. So would her bulk herb store and plexus have been as successful if she had completely unknown parents? I doubt it. 

It's a matter of connections and timing both. If you are already an influencer/have connections and get in at the top of an MLM, you're golden.  Stacy Macdonald, anyone?

I was listening to NPR this morning and Jane Marie,  the author of Selling the Dream: The Billion-Dollar Industry Bankrupting Americans was being interviewed. 

Description: "We’ve all heard of Amway, Mary Kay, Tupperware, and LuLaRoe, but few know the nefarious way they, and countless other multilevel marketing (MLM) companies, prey on desperate Americans struggling to make ends meet.

When factories close, stalwart industries shutter, and blue-collar opportunities evaporate, MLMs are there, ready to pounce on the crumbling American Dream. MLMs thrive in rural areas and on military bases, targeting women with promises of being their own boss and millions of dollars in easy income—even at the risk of their entire life savings. But the vast majority—99.7%—of those who join an MLM make no money or lose money, and wind up stuck with inventory they can’t sell to recoup their losses."

MLMs are brutally predatory.  Those desperate people at the bottom of the pyramid lose money, while those at the top, like Shoshanna, make in the six figures. 

Other titles:

Emily Lynn Paulson's  Hey, Hun: Sales, Sisterhood, Supremacy, and the Other Lies Behind Multilevel Marketing    She blogs at My Kind of Sweet

Robert L. FitzPatrick's Ponzinomics: The Untold Story of Multi-Level Marketing Paperback

all recent titles 

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

14 hours ago, KWLand said:

They are having their 16 year old go be with him and drive him home?  what if he dies when she’s down there?  what if her last memories is him sick and her not being able to do anything?  I just can’t imagine that a 16 year old being the primary caregiver in a country away from rest of the family is a good idea.  

One who can take a break, be with friends and have her support sys near-yeah that could work, but the only so far away.  Poor kid.  

Yes, I agree.  My jaw dropped when they got to "an adventure!" I guess the "daddio/daughter adventure" is the drive from Mexico, but that could go wrong in so many ways. Even little things like the car-breaking down or needing to find a bathroom. 

I think Adventure is too positive a term for what's going on. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Shoshanna has said this before. Maybe a year or so ago. When she talks about modesty she has to shit on lesbians. Oh those hateful Pearls always show their true nasty colors. She would think I look like a lesbian and I don’t give a single fuck. She looks like a bigot to me 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Giraffe]

11 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Shoshanna has said this before. Maybe a year or so ago. When she talks about modesty she has to shit on lesbians. Oh those hateful Pearls always show their true nasty colors. She would think I look like a lesbian and I don’t give a single fuck. She looks like a bigot to me 🤷🏻‍♀️

Says the woman who makes posts that can easily be seen as "wait, are she and Lauren romantic friends or platonic?"

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

Says the woman who makes posts that can easily be seen as "wait, are she and Lauren romantic friends or platonic?"

But they are both so girlie! They have long hair, jewelry, and flowers! Of course they aren’t lesbians silly! Lesbians all look exactly the same! Like men!

[Mrs Ms]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

But they are both so girlie! They have long hair, jewelry, and flowers! Of course they aren’t lesbians silly! Lesbians all look exactly the same! Like men!

I shouldn’t really laugh because we all know that is problematic bullshit, but the stupid dolt probably really believes it. Because my mind immediately went to this too ⬇️

 

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

Says the woman who makes posts that can easily be seen as "wait, are she and Lauren romantic friends or platonic?"

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think I would be a mind fuck to Shoshanna. I’m a married agnostic liberal cis straight stay at home mom who dresses like a lesbian. 

[Ozlsn]

"Hyper-conservative women often look like lesbians" wtaf is she on? And is this yet another way of hinting about her relationship with Lauren?

[MariaariaM]

15 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Shoshanna has said this before. Maybe a year or so ago. When she talks about modesty she has to shit on lesbians 🤷🏻‍♀️

Shoshanna, sweetie, if you want me to shop in the ladies' department you need to get in touch with the fashion industry and convince them to produce women's stuff that actually fits me. And then you have to not either shame me for having noticeable boobage or for wearing wide, shapeless garments. Give me durable clothes that aren't produced in sweatshops by girls that ought to be in school, out of toxin-laden materials. Give me options. Until then you can kiss my mens' shorts.

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

"Hyper-conservative women often look like lesbians" wtaf is she on? And is this yet another way of hinting about her relationship with Lauren?

She has explained before that fundies look frumpy as hell. Sure some do. But not all of them. It’s funny that she wants to target fundies who basically believe so much of the same shit. But they dress in oversized frumpy clothing and she disapproves. I just want to tell her, you are pissed everyone’s judging you for wearing shorts and tank tops. But you are doing the exact same thing to women who dress frumpy. She would hate the way I dress.