Pearls 2: Michael, Shoshanna, et al

[FiveAcres]

I read an article years ago, about how a high percentage of medical doctors do not pursue what used to be known as heroic forms of treatment when diagnosed with the really bad forms of cancer and instead elect palliative care so that they can live with as much quality of life as possible in their remaining time.

I know someone in his eighties who has been diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer, and has undergone aggressive treatment for it ("rung the bell"). They won't even know how successful it was for months after the treatment ended. He is very stubborn about doing everything that can be done but is still struggling with the concept that it isn't a cure: the best case that it buys enough time for something else to kill him.  Making it worse is that he lost at least one of his brothers to the same disease. I believe he lost one relative after the relative decided it was not longer worth continuing the treatment.   

For a relatively young man like Michael, who probably didn't have much in the way of critical analysis skills to begin with, it probably seems like believing what he doesn't believe are charlatans is worth the risk.

[Giraffe]

I understand people wanting something other than chemo. Chemo itself is a carcinogen! But it can also buy people good quality time they don't have otherwise. But glorified spas like Hope4Cancer are nothing but professional grifters. 
 

By far the saddest part about this is (imo) he's too ill at this point for chemo to be of any use and most of his children haven't seen him for three months!! I can't imagine what his you gest children's thoughts will be when he dies. Dad left us for months and then came home and died.  That's such an awful thing for them to go through! Idk if his cancer could've been put into remission by chemo or radiation but he's lost three months of what little time he has left because if his awful distrust of science. I hope his children grow up and leave their anti-science beliefs behind. 

Edited July 23 by Giraffe

[hoipolloi]

36 minutes ago, Xan said:

These clinics exist to play on people's fears.  They'll promise that you won't die and, since most people don't think about their own mortality, it works to separate sick folks from their money.  Shalom isn't doing anyone any favors by pushing this scam clinic as a place for miracles.

Makes me wonder what the other Pearls, like her parents, think about all this. They've been pretty silent on their public social media, not even listing the fundraiser links after once doing so when Justin received his diagnosis. 

Mike and Debi have both had serious medical issues but, IIRC, they sought standard medical care. Debi also pushes the woo but I guess when it comes to her own health, she doesn't take chances.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Makes me wonder what the other Pearls, like her parents, think about all this. They've been pretty silent on their public social media, not even listing the fundraiser links after once doing so when Justin received his diagnosis. 

Mike and Debi have both had serious medical issues but, IIRC, they sought standard medical care. Debi also pushes the woo but I guess when it comes to her own health, she doesn't take chances.

 

Debi posts supportively under some of Shalom’s posts. I think Mike isn’t much into social media.

[Howl]

So here's the deal.  The tumor is reported to now be miniscule, with the implication that he's close to cured.  So what's the problem?   

A week or two ago he had a health crisis that required an ambulance ride to a hospital to keep him alive, while he's receiving what is purported to be the very best alternative treatments for healing along with very pure food at the clinic.  For many weeks he's been too weak to travel home. 

When he was in the hospital, Mexican doctors recommended treatments that the Brands declined.  Those docs may have had important feedback on his actual condition, but Shalom couldn't get past the language barrier to understand what was being conveyed. 

I deeply hope he can get home to the kids without a major crisis (or worse) on the way. 

Edited July 23 by Howl

[Ozlsn]

5 hours ago, Xan said:

Cancer is scary but, in the end, it's just something that goes wrong with your body -- specifically your immune system.  You have a rogue cell that doesn't die and get replaced.  It just keeps growing and your immune system doesn't notice it and kill it off.  You don't catch cancer. 

It's less your immune system and more programmed cell death going wrong that is the issue. Essentially you don't want your immune system recognising cancer because it's your own cells, but you do want cells to die when they are supposed to or when something goes wrong. Cancer cells are basically "immortal" due to something in the pathways being knocked out, if you're really unlucky it's a key point affecting many pathways which can mean you have uncontrolled growth and a very fast growing cancer. 

5 hours ago, Giraffe said:

I understand people wanting something other than chemo. Chemo itself is a carcinogen!

There's also radiation, surgery, immunotherapies and other treatments. What really annoys me about this case is that he possibly had a good shot at being on a clinical trial if they thought standard treatment was not going to be effective, and even if not could have had more time with his very young children. I cannot get over the clinic basically lying to their faces once they'd extracted enough money so they would go away and die in a different legal jurisdiction. It's utterly appalling.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Maybe they’ve pumped him full of coffee enemas and steroids to make him feel better even though he isn’t better. 

[MariaariaM]

How convenient that Shalom believes the hospital spoke "words of death" over them just before they went home. Can't be the scammers' fault if he dies now.

Edited July 24 by MariaariaM
Grammar. Some of it.

[JermajestyDuggar]

37 minutes ago, MariaariaM said:

How convenient that Shalom believes the hospital spoke "words of death" over them just before they went home. Can't be the scammers' fault if he dies now.

It’s very easy to find a scapegoat when you think like this. Even if they didn’t speak words of death, they could easily just blame the devil. 

[Bassett Lady]

On 7/23/2024 at 12:39 PM, Giraffe said:

I understand people wanting something other than chemo. Chemo itself is a carcinogen

My mom fought cancer tooth and nail. She did everything thing that modern science had to offer and she also ate a diet supervised by a nutritionist and practiced prayer and meditation. 
 

Her oncologist said Chemo was essentially playing chicken with cancer. Chemo is a drug that kills cells, and it usually kills cancer cells faster than healthy cells. If you are really lucky the chemo kills the cancer before the chemo kills the patient. 
 

My mom was so freaking tough. She fought for so long and while she eventually lost her battle with cancer she stayed alive long enough to raise me, her youngest child. 

If I ever manage to be half the woman she was I will feel like a huge success. She was so wise, kind, talented, accomplished, hopeful, and funny. 
 

She could reupholster a couch, deliver a breech baby, and treated everyone with such dignity and respect.  
 

When these fundies forsake medical care, bankrupt their families with fraudulent medical woo, and miss the last few months of their life with their children my blood boils. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

On 7/22/2024 at 9:22 PM, Howl said:

I'm wondering if the tumor has shrunk to the size of a raisin, why is he still having terrible problems with fluid buildup in his lungs?  

People get pneumonia for any number of reasons, usually not cancer related.

 

[Giraffe]

5 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

People get pneumonia for any number of reasons, usually not cancer related.

 

Yes but in this case? The man has untreated lymphoma. It's probably cancer related.

[JermajestyDuggar]

57 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

Yes but in this case? The man has untreated lymphoma. It's probably cancer related.

Yes, this fluid buildup has been months long. He was on antibiotics the hospital gave him. She says his fluid build up is going down. And it has to be a certain lower level before they leave Mexico.

[MariaariaM]

So he's feeling better thanks to the real antibiotics from the real doctors and the spa scammers tell him it's because he's basically healed and he should go home (while he's still alive). Great. Just great.

[FiveAcres]

I had an elderly golden retriever who had something really nasty going on internally. She was old enough that we didn't do a complete workup on her, since that would have been big bucks, but her vet would give me cheap antibiotics when the GR had a flare-up. OTC cold medicine (recommended by vet) would also help since it helped her appetite. I suspect the regime of antibiotics and cold medicine kept Lily going for a year longer than she would have survived without, and that she had a pretty good quality of life for that year.

[Giraffe]

Just now, FiveAcres said:

I had an elderly golden retriever who had something really nasty going on internally. She was old enough that we didn't do a complete workup on her, since that would have been big bucks, but her vet would give me cheap antibiotics when the GR had a flare-up. OTC cold medicine (recommended by vet) would also help since it helped her appetite. I suspect the regime of antibiotics and cold medicine kept Lily going for a year longer than she would have survived without, and that she had a pretty good quality of life for that year.

My roommate's cat is going through something similar now. They spent a lot on their elderly cat and were told they could go to a specialist about three hours away to get the cancerous?? mass in her abdomen biopsied. They've opted to keep her home and give her whatever she wants until she makes it clear she's done. That was a few weeks ago and she's still her old self. 

It's remarkable to me the lengths with which people who supposedly believe in a glorious afterlife will take in order to remain in this realm. It's not like he's even spending his last days with his children!! I don't understand fundies. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Shoshanna posted a video saying his lung fluid is still not as low as they want it to be to leave. And the clinic suggested one more targeted treatment. Because of course they did! Shoshanna doesn’t seem sold on one last targeted treatment. It would mean they stay a couple more days. And of course they do t have the funds for it. If every single person stopped giving them money, then they could go home. Because they are only being held there as long as they can pay. 

[Giraffe]

These updates are simultaneously heartbreaking and infuriating. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Shoshanna posted a video saying his lung fluid is still not as low as they want it to be to leave. And the clinic suggested one more targeted treatment. Because of course they did! Shoshanna doesn’t seem sold on one last targeted treatment. It would mean they stay a couple more days. And of course they do t have the funds for it. If every single person stopped giving them money, then they could go home. Because they are only being held there as long as they can pay. 

Sorry I mean Shalom not Shoshanna. They are both fundie names that start with Sh! Easy to mix up. 

[FiveAcres]

38 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Sorry I mean Shalom not Shoshanna. They are both fundie names that start with Sh! Easy to mix up. 

Thank you for posting this. I got muddled a few days ago and called Justin "Michael" and now am hoping that my error doesn't make this sad situation even murkier. Since I haven't really followed the Pearls 0G, as well as their offspring, until the Mexican clinic scam drama, I was quite confused. 

[FilleMondaine]

I have the medical social worker at a nursing home, and did hospice social work (with my doggie pictures as my avatar) I have seen a lot of end-of-life situations.

Some people want to fight as long as they can, even if the quality of life is poor. Other people want to have the best quality of life before they expire. No one chooses cancer, so they get really hardcore about the choices after the diagnosis.

The nursing home wasn’t as egregious as this spa, but they definitely eeked out as much money as they could. Management just didn’t care about quality of life, so long as they lived longer, and Medicare paid.

reading this thread brought back so many memories. Ugh.

[Coconut Flan]

It sounds like the one time I allowed myself to be talked/bullied into letting Mom go to a SNF.  They wouldn't release her until all her Medicare days had been exhausted.  I've posted negative reviews of them on every site I could find.  She was no better when she left than when she went in for "rehab."  I had to arrange PT on home healthcare for her to get back to walking.

[colder by the lake]

While not quite the same as the scam S&J have (very tragically) fallen for, this article struck me as a very similar situation.

(I think I've shared it as a gift article so others can read it.)

I always wonder do these folks ever admit they were scammed when, after spending tens of thousands of dollars, they don't get better?

[Xan]

43 minutes ago, colder by the lake said:

While not quite the same as the scam S&J have (very tragically) fallen for, this article struck me as a very similar situation.

(I think I've shared it as a gift article so others can read it.)

I always wonder do these folks ever admit they were scammed when, after spending tens of thousands of dollars, they don't get better?

Thank you.  Good article.  I wonder what happened when the guy eventually realized that the miracle bed didn't work?

[Coconut Flan]

Just like the snake oil peddlers only with a much higher price.  Lessons in how to develop gullibility.