Harry & Meghan 18: Faux Royals

[Ozlsn]

10 hours ago, VGL said:

I don't think Harry is overly academically inclined.

I get the feeling that in a different family Harry would have gone into the trades or stayed quite happily in the military at the level he was. I wonder if he would have been happy "managing" royal estates - or more accurately getting his hands dirty fixing and doing stuff while someone else did the books.

On 6/4/2024 at 2:06 PM, DalmatianCat said:

I imagine in other life, Harry would have a fine, happy, and fulfilled life as either career military, construction worker, law enforcement, or just a white water rafting or trail guide. I think he does best with manual work that he can be “hands on.” I think charity work is what he’s currently defaulted too because it’s “safe” and he honestly doesn’t know what else to do.

Agreed - and he's been told all his life it's what he "should" do. A hands on role in something like Outward Bound would probably suit him too.

On 6/4/2024 at 12:43 PM, Coconut Flan said:

Who knows where or if Meghan would have been able to continue acting. 

This is literally the first time I've wondered about what visa type she had. And what type Harry is on. 

[SoSoNosy]

Harry seemed great at being "one of the guys", and his Invictus Games strike me as being brilliant and he loves those.  There had to be a niche for Harry, did anybody put any effort into finding that niche?

 

[Coconut Flan]

No effort went into the idea of Invictus games.  They copied from the Warrior Games.  Supposedly Harry saw the Warrior Games and said we should do that.

[anjulibai]

34 minutes ago, SoSoNosy said:

Harry seemed great at being "one of the guys", and his Invictus Games strike me as being brilliant and he loves those.  There had to be a niche for Harry, did anybody put any effort into finding that niche?

 

I don't think so. I think he was expected to do work more like Anne, Edward, and QEII's cousins. I don't think anyone wanted him to do anything that could potentially make him outshine William. 

2 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

No effort went into the idea of Invictus games.  They copied from the Warrior Games.  Supposedly Harry saw the Warrior Games and said we should do that.

I don't know why the Invictus Games and his role in it are so dismissed on this thread. Yes, he was inspired by the Warrior Games, but his experiences meeting veterans from around the world showed him that that sort of thing is needed elsewhere. And it's definitely been very successful, to the point that clearly other countries want to be a part of it (and at least one has been willing to bring him over to help influence their joining). 

Just sounds like sour grapes over Harry having something that has such an impact. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Lots of people steal idea like that. Ninja warrior stole that concept from Japan and then a gazillion knock offs of Ninja warrior started. I give a pass on that.

It's a shame he couldn't have been installed as some sort of liaison or consultation and kept on a retainer. But he did seem to start putting feelers out for jobs for M not long after they were married. So I don't know what to think there.

The whole thing is weird on top of weird and seems to be at it's heart just insanely bad communication between them all. Nobody seems to have shared the same expectations. I personally feel that a lot of the angst comes from "palace staff" or whoever who have been running the royal fam from behind the scenes forever. It seems they've always been extremely conservative about everything and have a lot of influence. My gut feeling is that they tried hard to reign in a lot of things about all the royals with mixed success. But I don't think they revised their methods when it was clearly backfiring with Harry. Seems like there was a lot of our way or the highway being communicated which is consistent with what has been said over the years about all the staff behind the scenes. I kinda feel like Elizabeth and Charles were/are both so used to dealing with life through their staff that they didn't have perspective. Like have your office contact my office and have our offices work out the details - then each office presents the other badly to their royal person and then each royal person is like "I'm not going to go out on a limb for you....my office says you did XYZ in bad faith while we acted in good faith - so there!"

I wish they'd do something to give a little more info. I hurt my back and missed work today and tomorrow is not looking good and I'm BORED! hahaha. Give me some juicy news that's not stupid trump 

[Coconut Flan]

1 hour ago, anjulibai said:

I don't know why the Invictus Games and his role in it are so dismissed on this thread. Yes, he was inspired by the Warrior Games, but his experiences meeting veterans from around the world showed him that that sort of thing is needed elsewhere. And it's definitely been very successful, to the point that clearly other countries want to be a part of it (and at least one has been willing to bring him over to help influence their joining). 

Just sounds like sour grapes over Harry having something that has such an impact. 

Not sour grapes at all or dismissive. Someone asked something about how it came to be.  Was effort put in to find something for Harry.  That is how it came to be and no one put effort into finding it for Harry according to published reports and words he said for what any of that is worth.  I said nothing about their value positive or negative or anything about Harry's involvement after the inception.  For the record, I think the games themselves are quite worthy and useful and Harry has in the past looked like he made connections.  This last round did not go nearly as well as the previous ones.  

Edited June 6 by Coconut Flan

[just_ordinary]

I think H would have not been happy with a desk job at all. Not sure there wouldn’t have been something found for him. University degree or not. I don’t get why he didn’t double down on Invictus, the military and veteran scene and Sentebale as a base line. And while I don’t think he is a creative mastermind- he had the passion and the profile to make a successful enough copy in Europe. Was he surrounded by people that knew how to make his wish reality- yes. He hardly did it in his own. That’s not the point though. There was a good base to work with. 
I have my own ideas as to why he didn’t seem to have worked on a plan for whenever his brother’s family would take centre stage. It seems though that the RF did support him in putting him around the people that sustained his passions. Now that he has to choose his own staff he doesn’t seem to be as successful.
 

Anne didn’t directly refuse titles for her children. She and their father decided not to have a title bestowed on him, so respective children just didn’t have one to inherit. If she always planned for raising them outside the working royal idea? This could have been very well the idea behind their decision against the title upon marriage. Or maybe she didn’t want to have to take on her husbands title? We simply don’t know. 
I don’t think they turned out that much better. The milk commercial was years ago. Maybe over ten years at that point. The last bigger headlines we got from him we his divorce, breaking quarantine and now dating a nurse. Zara’s husband shills whatever pays on Insta and did his fair share of reality tv and has no problem to give just some hints about his royal relatives to be not a snitch but draw in attention.

[louisa05]

@just_ordinary

We do know that Anne and Mark directly made the decision for their children not to have titles. She spoke about it to Vanity Fair in early 2020. And it would have nothing to do with her title. Royals always use their highest ranking titles and regardless of her husband’s title, her title as a blood princess is higher. Her current husband is Sir Timothy Laurence which would make her Lady Laurence. But her Princess title is higher. 

Vanity Fair Link: https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/04/princess-anne-opens-up-about-her-lifetime-as-a-royal

 

Edited June 8 by louisa05
Added link

[viii]

7 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I have my own ideas as to why he didn’t seem to have worked on a plan for whenever his brother’s family would take centre stage. It seems though that the RF did support him in putting him around the people that sustained his passions. Now that he has to choose his own staff he doesn’t seem to be as successful.

To be fair, this wasn’t a Harry issue alone. It wasn’t solely up to him to create a plan for himself and the issue of “spares” has been a BRF for years - long before Harry was ever on the scene. 

And you’re 100% spot on about Mike - he baits the media with stories about his royal connections but doesn’t say enough that people label him as a snitch. He walks a fine line but I’ve personally never liked him. 

[AmazonGrace]

What kind of plan are we hoping they'd have, specifically? All the spares are not one-size-fits-all so is there something beyond a  broad plan like "give them all the chances to make their own way in the world" that would be good for all of them?

Even if  the spares had everything in their lives planned and mapped out to the last detail, I think some of them might still be unhappy because some might still see the BRF plan something that restricts their freedom and gets imposed on them, regardless of their own choices, wishes and personality. And those who are inclined to be jealous of the heir, still could be.

[viii]

I think the issue with spares is they are temporary. You use them while you need them and once the heir has produced children old enough to be of use, you discard your current spares and then pick up new ones. It’s not sustainable. And yes, the spares know they are temporary, but it’s hard to plan for a life when you’re needed for something else for a good chunk of your life. The BRF has done its best to stretch themselves - justifying the need for so many working royals that these spares don’t seem to have much options in the beginning. They’re expected to work for the family in the beginning and support their sibling. 

However, at the end of the day, you only need the monarch and the crown prince/princess. The issue of spares is a tricky problem that doesn’t have an obvious solution, which is why I think the BRF has struggled for so many years with it. 

[AmazonGrace]

If Harry wasn't a royal what do you see him doing with his life? Would he know what he wants? Would he have worked diligently to pursue his life's goals? Did he go to Sandhurst because that's his thing or because that's acceptable for princes-in-waiting?

Would he have done better academically, without the royal pressures? perhaps with more special support? or worse, if he got grades based on his academic merits and not based on who his father is?

[viii]

I think if Harry had been born into an average family, he probably would have led a very average life. He seems more physically inclined than academically and that probably would still be true. I think even without the pressure and support, some people just aren’t geared towards academics. 

[SoSoNosy]

How many of Diana's woes did she pour out, both before, during and after her divorce?  Harry was very young during those times, and the opinion of him that I have gotten is that he would have absorbed that angst and then when she died they could have multiplied in his head.  I have a cousin whose mother was unhappy in her life and marriage, and she used her only child as her confidante.  Just over the last few years have I been able to gently point out to my cousin that her mother didn't need to be telling her all of this stuff.  And we are elderly women now.

[louisa05]

57 minutes ago, SoSoNosy said:

How many of Diana's woes did she pour out, both before, during and after her divorce?  Harry was very young during those times, and the opinion of him that I have gotten is that he would have absorbed that angst and then when she died they could have multiplied in his head.  I have a cousin whose mother was unhappy in her life and marriage, and she used her only child as her confidante.  Just over the last few years have I been able to gently point out to my cousin that her mother didn't need to be telling her all of this stuff.  And we are elderly women now.

William was her confidant. She openly admitted that herself. Never Harry. Harry was very much her spoiled baby. 

[viii]

Both William and Harry probably saw and heard more than they should have, but from all accounts, Diana seemed to confide in William (which probably has festered in Harry’s heart all these years). The issues between him and William are vast. 

[Ozlsn]

7 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

If Harry wasn't a royal what do you see him doing with his life? Would he know what he wants? Would he have worked diligently to pursue his life's goals? 

Tradie or squaddie are my bets. Worked diligently? Possibly, or equally possibly he would have drifted into them.  Might have worked up to NCO, might have left after a couple of tours. (Might not have come home from Afghanistan whole or at all, he would have been put in more hazardous places.) Might have run a small business, might have been content to work for someone else.

I do think it is a shame that he wasn't able to continue as much with the military role he was in, as I think it fitted him well. In previous centuries the lack of academic learning wouldn't have been a barrier to him being in leadership in the military - they would have bought him a commission and off he'd go, leading his men into certain death (I am probably overly cynical here, but reading through some accounts of English military history... you'd really hope anyone in leadership would be at least marginally competent, or at least appreciate that soldiers were also human. Also hanging people for accurately identifying issues and bringing them up with superiors is a really good way to find yourself in a heap of trouble when those predictions prove accurate).

Failing a commission of course they would probably have sent Harry on a constant tour of the Empire, as they did with Edward VIII prior to him becoming King (and to a lesser extent with Prince George).

[treehugger]

Very young children can sense stress and anxiety though, which can lead to a host of mental health issues for themselves and resentment towards what they consider to be the source of that stress.  Diana may not have needed to confide in Harry for him to sense her stress and anger towards certain people. He was at the right age to absorb that she was unhappy or angry, even if she didn’t confide in him. 

[AmazonGrace]

4 hours ago, viii said:

Both William and Harry probably saw and heard more than they should have, but from all accounts, Diana seemed to confide in William (which probably has festered in Harry’s heart all these years). The issues between him and William are vast. 

As if it was William's fault that Diana was unable to keep her woes to herself and/or other adults, and not burden either of her kids with them?

[viii]

33 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

As if it was William's fault that Diana was unable to keep her woes to herself and/or other adults, and not burden either of her kids with them?

I’m not saying Harry would fault William for it, but more likely he would be resentful that once again, William was privy to something he wasn’t. That seems to be the main source of contention between them (mostly from Harry’s accounts). 

[just_ordinary]

@louisa05 ah thanks. I didn’t know that.

I second that siblings can form all kind of jealousy and experience hurt feelings towards their siblings - not because these did anything wrong but because the parents did something. Mustn’t even mean that the parents were doing anything wrong. Emotions aren’t rational. And there are several truths at play. Diana did the best she could in that department. Doesn’t mean she didn’t failed her boys in some points. It’s easy to judge in retrospect. But we don’t really know if W&H and their relationship would have turned out much differently or they would have turned out at all. if C&D and RF would have done things differently. They would have been spared that drama but could still have turned out abusive, stupid, grifting addicts. To carelessly slap some words together. What if…. is a dangerous game in that regard. While I think he would have preferred Gordonstoun academically, he might have easily hated it because it’s so far away and might have felt rejected and shipped off.

In other news- have we ever found out who for the jars 1-10? It seems we saw 5 jars and that was about it. Why do they promote such a big launch only to not have a website with stock and an Order button ready to go? I can easily see some crazies buying the jam only to talk shit about it. Which doesn’t matter as long as H&M get paid. It’s absolutely mind blowing that they always hype up a big thing only to under-deliver. Again and again. Archwell, Netflix, Spotify, throwing in their website to tackle miss-information about COVID and the vaccines for good measure. It’s not that complicated.
WTF going on?????

Edited June 9 by just_ordinary

[AmazonGrace]

1 hour ago, viii said:

I’m not saying Harry would fault William for it, but more likely he would be resentful that once again, William was privy to something he wasn’t. That seems to be the main source of contention between them (mostly from Harry’s accounts). 

Yeah my point is more that William was a child too and if he was made privy to the adult mayhem of their parents and heard things that he shouldn't have he was not better off than Harry. Depending on  what was going on it might have been rather harmful for William too.

[viii]

Oh I’m absolutely sure that a lot of it was harmful to William. No child should be a pawn in their parents divorce, let alone an active player, which is what Diana made him. I think the fact he dated Kate for over ten years before marrying her shows the impact his parents marriage and divorce had on him as a child. Many sources have credited him as cold and aloof when it comes to relationships and I’m sure his mother weaponizing him plays a part in that. 

Both Charles and Diana did their sons a massive disservice as they were growing up. Unfortunately, only Charles is around now to fix his errors, while Diana can easily be viewed with rose coloured glasses because she’s gone, and few like to think ill of the dead, no matter how deserving they are of it. 

[Coconut Flan]

Rumors, for what they are worth, is that ARO is dead in the water.  They supposely haven't been able to find a CEO or investors.  The cooking show allegedly stopped filming as it wasn't working out as planned or expected.  The rumor mill is split on whether Meghan walked or Netflix pulled the plug.  

Further, Archie is of an age in the US to start kindergarten this fall.  Again supposedly Meghan and Harry were seen touring a $60,000 per year private school. I haven't found one quite that pricey, but I did find a $40,000 one.  

[viii]

This is why they shouldn’t announce projects until they have all their ducks lined up in a row.