Jinger Duggar Vuolo 61

[Mama Mia]

On 10/18/2024 at 4:37 AM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

It wouldn't surprise me if she went to school, but had to do some degree of sister-momming when home. If it's less than what Jana was doing, Jinger will think she's totally different than her mother. 

I bet it’s really hard for any of those older daughters to be able to gauge how much sibling help and chores are appropriate. There is such a vast difference between a 6 1/2 year old Felicity being sometimes asked to grab a diaper, or amuse the baby if she starts to fuss while mom is making dinner, or can she please help Evy find her shoes  —and being handed the general responsibility of daily caring for an actual small human. When is it normal helping, and when is it too much? They had such an extreme upbringing — way too sheltered and too little independence in some ways- way too many adult responsibilities in others, that sorting out what feels right for their family will be hard . It’s tough and with a wide spectrum of views even if you didn’t grow up like that. 

Edited Sunday at 05:55 PM by Mama Mia

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 10/18/2024 at 8:16 AM, GreenBeans said:

I’d bet there was a lot of resentment between “team leaders” and the “buddies” on their team (and guilt about feeling resentment towards your siblings). Not having time to yourself, always dragging a little sibling along, being blamed for little siblings noch being dressed right / not behaving right / not doing chores right… and then for the buddies, always having an older sibling tell them what to do, possibly even disciplining/beating them…

I feel for all those Duggar kids. No matter how they turned out and how fundie they are today as adults, they were dealt a pretty awful hand in childhood.

It’s almost as if *checks notes* the system didn’t set them up to be each other’s best friends, as was the stated goal. 
 

I hope if Felicity is roped into sister momming she’s a smart ass about it. When I was 4 and asked to watch my sister, I’d stare unblinking at her and yell any update, “Mom, she moved her leg!” “Mom she sneezed!” “Mooom, there’s boogers all over her face!” “I can’t get a tissue I have to watch the baby!”

Even as a preschooler, I understood malicious compliance. 

Edited Sunday at 07:06 PM by Father Son Holy Goat

[Kiki03910]

8 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

It’s almost as if *checks notes* the system didn’t set them up to be each other’s best friends, as was the stated goal. 
 

I hope if Felicity is roped into sister momming she’s a smart ass about it. When I was 4 and asked to watch my sister, I’d stare unblinking at her and yell any update, “Mom, she moved her leg!” “Mom she sneezed!” “Mooom, there’s boogers all over her face!” “I can’t get a tissue I have to watch the baby!”

Even as a preschooler, I understood malicious compliance. 

Oh my god, I adore you.

I was the mean older sibling who told my sister she was adopted (she wasn't). But given what total assholes both parents turned out to be, I'd rather not be related to them, and my sister feels the same.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I actually agree with Jinger that a lot of people are very vocal about hating kids.  I'm assuming this is reactionary to people constantly harassing them about not having kids, but there are a lot of people who are very negative about "breeders" and "you should have thought about that before having kids" whenever a kid is misbehaving or giving the parent a hard time.  It makes me a bit sad when I hear it because if the parents were beating the kids into submission it wouldn't be an issue and no one should be advocating for that.

I do NOT believe it's selfish to remain childfree by choice, though, because JFC my kid can be so stressful.  And she's expensive.  I think we should all be able to make our choices and they're valid... with plenty of room for compassion on both sides for those struggling for any reason.

[zimona]

1 hour ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I actually agree with Jinger that a lot of people are very vocal about hating kids.  I'm assuming this is reactionary to people constantly harassing them about not having kids, but there are a lot of people who are very negative about "breeders" and "you should have thought about that before having kids" whenever a kid is misbehaving or giving the parent a hard time

Childless semi-old catlady here. I don't hate kids. I hate parents who don't bother to teach their kids (age apropriate, of course) about boundaries. I'm quite happy to let kids be kids. But if they start to actively pester me and intrude on me (like trying to drink from MY lemonade in a Café, or wiping their chocolate covered fingers on my backpack during train rides...) then I will speak up and tell them to stop, and I'm fully aware that to the innocent bystander I might come across as 'hating' kids, especially since I might be a bit worked up at that point. I'm not blaming the kids, they don't know better. I'm blaming those parents who shy away from putting a brake on their kids' (sometimes) too exuberant behaviour. 

[4boysmum]

I have a bunch of kids and as much as I love them they also drive me nuts.  They can be loud and messy.  The younger ones are still figuring out where their personal space ends and other people's (mostly mine!) begins.  But I can't ever imagine them doing something like drinking someone else's lemonade.  And if they ever took leave of their senses long enough to try, I would deal with it ASAP and also buy you another lemonade.

My kids are my responsibility and if they act up in public it's my job to correct them or take them somewhere else so they aren't disturbing others.  

But I have also occasionally come across people who do seem to resent children being present in public at all.  Don't think they should be brought to restaurants, etc.  I couldn't say what percentage of the childfree population feels that way, but people like that do exist.  And I think it's a shame because (a) how do you teach kids to behave in places like restaurants if you don't take them to practice, and (b) if I've put in the work to teach my kids how to behave in various places and they are not being disruptive, they really do have just as much right to be there as any other segment of the population.

[JermajestyDuggar]

20 hours ago, zimona said:

Childless semi-old catlady here. I don't hate kids. I hate parents who don't bother to teach their kids (age apropriate, of course) about boundaries. I'm quite happy to let kids be kids. But if they start to actively pester me and intrude on me (like trying to drink from MY lemonade in a Café, or wiping their chocolate covered fingers on my backpack during train rides...) then I will speak up and tell them to stop, and I'm fully aware that to the innocent bystander I might come across as 'hating' kids, especially since I might be a bit worked up at that point. I'm not blaming the kids, they don't know better. I'm blaming those parents who shy away from putting a brake on their kids' (sometimes) too exuberant behaviour. 

What’s funny is I often say this about dogs! 🤣🤣🤣 Every time I find myself hating a dog, I realize I just hate how horrible the owner is. It’s always someone who lets their dog get away with the most horrific behavior at the expense of other people. 

[treehugger]

I really think it depends where you live as to what attitudes people have towards kids. I always felt really insecure about having my kids in public in Southern Ontario (where mega families were common) because people were unbelievably judgy about how they behaved and my parenting in general.
 

Then we moved to downtown Montreal, where having more than 1 kid was considered a big family, and everyone is just so kind and supportive and encouraging. No one batted an eye at them. I swear that’s why we moved here. 

[LillyP]

It's funny because as a mom of two young kids (6 & 3) I am very much a "time and place" person when it comes kids in public spaces. I think that 100% yes kids have a right to be in public places, and kids in restaurants and planes and places are just a part of life. BUT, I do think there is such a thing as using common sense and I feel like wayyyy too many parents these days feel entitled to bring their kids to places that while it's within their right to do so, it's probably not appropriate. 

I do admit though that I am probably slightly biased on the subject because as a wedding & family photographer I see it alllll the time. I'm team no kids at weddings, which is always a hot topic. And for me it really boils down to the fact that weddings are formal events and *most* of the time the kids are a big disruption. And it's not that they're being bad, *they're just being kids*. Unfortunately too many parents just either a) don't pay attention or keep their kids in check, or b) are watching their kids and find nothing wrong with their behavior. 

We are relatively strict parents when it comes to behavior, dare I say "old school". We take our kids out to restaurants A LOT, we fly with them regularly, etc. No kids are perfect, and no matter how strict you are every kid has their moments, tantrums, etc. IMO the difference is in how you handle it and doing so in a way that it doesn't disrupt other people. That might not be a popular opinion, but I absolutely feel that while it's my right to take my kids out to dinner, it's also the right of the other patrons to not listen to my kids yell and scream and be annoying.

[kittykay]

For me it certainly is the setting.  Most parents do try to teach their children manners and to be respectful.

We were visiting a museum years ago and I remember several kids were just running wild.  Never saw anyone (parent or teacher) say a word. to them.  

[nvmbr02]

6 hours ago, LillyP said:

 

I do admit though that I am probably slightly biased on the subject because as a wedding & family photographer I see it alllll the time. I'm team no kids at weddings, which is always a hot topic. And for me it really boils down to the fact that weddings are formal events and *most* of the time the kids are a big disruption. And it's not that they're being bad, *they're just being kids*. Unfortunately too many parents just either a) don't pay attention or keep their kids in check, or b) are watching their kids and find nothing wrong with their behavior. 

 

I mostly agree with your most and it was pretty much the same for us though my kids are now mostly adults. I think the question about kids at weddings really comes down to how weddings are done in your circle. We've been to formal and black tie weddings before and I would agree they for the most part aren't appropriate for younger children. The weddings in my family however, are very family friendly. They tend to be earlier in the day and though the reception can go quite late, it is not any later than a typical family party goes. Dress tends to be semi formal, venues tend to be outside or partially outside, etc... It is more of a family party atmosphere with lots of food and dancing.

[Kiki03910]

To chime in on experiences, I'm a middle-aged woman who's child-free by choice. My bestie is as well. I have never heard anyone make disparaging comments about people choosing to have kids. I have been on the receiving end of (always male) assholes questioning my choice. I like kids. I've been a damn good aunt as well as the favorite adult of many friends' kids. When I see a mom or dad in public spaces who's trying to deal with a tired or cranky kid, I always give them a sympathetic smile, because shit is tough.

I'm happy to pay taxes that support children and families. I would gladly pay more, and vote accordingly. Yet somehow people like me are demonized as bitter cat ladies (my cats are fucking AWESOME, I'll have you know). Women are never more reviled than when they don't play patriarchal games. I'm super sad when parents are treated poorly, because that's wrong. I just think the level of vitriol is totally different.

[Gobsmacked]

12 hours ago, kittykay said:

For me it certainly is the setting.  Most parents do try to teach their children manners and to be respectful.

We were visiting a museum years ago and I remember several kids were just running wild.  Never saw anyone (parent or teacher) say a word. to them.  

The worst case of this was at Anne Franks house 2 years ago. Everyone respectfully murmurs - same as in a library. A group of high school aged children were running through the rooms and watching stuff on mobile phones with the volume on. Not one teacher said anything. They were there! 
A few visitors did have a word with them. Things didn’t improve though. 

[SassyPants]

9 hours ago, Gobsmacked said:

The worst case of this was at Anne Franks house 2 years ago. Everyone respectfully murmurs - same as in a library. A group of high school aged children were running through the rooms and watching stuff on mobile phones with the volume on. Not one teacher said anything. They were there! 
A few visitors did have a word with them. Things didn’t improve though. 

The most tense place I have ever been is a Holocaust Museum where several people were being disrespectful and a brawl broke out right next to me. This was maybe the 3rd HM we have visited. I told my husband that’s enough. No more of those. I know what happened and have seen enough. 

[libgirl2]

50 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

The most tense place I have ever been is a Holocaust Museum where several people were being disrespectful and a brawl broke out right next to me. This was maybe the 3rd HM we have visited. I told my husband that’s enough. No more of those. I know what happened and have seen enough. 

I work at a library and I can tell you that no one behaves the way they used to, especially the kids. We are supposed to let them just be themselves, meanwhile sometimes it is a circus. I'm so glad I don't work in the public area anymore because it used to get me so angry. If you let them run around and do what they want, how are they going to behave elsewhere? And what will happen when they get older? How can they learn? Now, I'm not saying we need absolute silence but there are people who are trying to study and like the library as a quiet and peaceful place. 

[Coconut Flan]

I was returning a blu-ray last week and walked in the door to hear a guy screaming about "that crazy bitch."  Then security hustled him out the door.  The kids aren't allowed to run or yell either.  It's surprising they are maintaining some standards.