Jinger Duggar Vuolo 61

[JermajestyDuggar]

It’s scary how well she presents herself and her beliefs. She will suck in more people to worship MacArthur. 

[SassyPants]

51 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s scary how well she presents herself and her beliefs. She will suck in more people to worship MacArthur. 

Yes, she absolutely will. I think doing the show helped Jinger hone this skill. And she knows her stuff, and so I can see her as someone that people might listen to. She should go to Divinity school. I was actually shocked at how well she presents the material and her POV. 

[Coconut Flan]

Perhaps we have the answer to why that church has appeared to coddle the Vuolos.   They are also in person excellent ambassadors for the church.  

[SassyPants]

42 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Perhaps we have the answer to why that church has appeared to coddle the Vuolos.   They are also in person excellent ambassadors for the church.  

The Vuolos straddle the secular and religious worlds very well. I think they do so even better than the Dillards as they both seem really calm about it. On the flip side, the Dillards were the first “Duggars” to publicly challenge Gothard’s beliefs, so the  Vuolos had a firsthand view of how JB responded to those challenges, and could then strategize to avoid some of the pitfalls that the Dillards experienced. No doubt about it though, no matter how much the Vuolos claim that they want to have a good relationship with the TTH, they are very separate from it. I’m sure that living in CA helps to soften that separation. You don’t see JB visiting LA too often and Jinger rarely mentions her dad VS her mom. 

I think Michelle has spent her life placating JB and encouraging all family members to tailor their approach to JB as to keep him on an even keel.

[Coconut Flan]

Derrick doesn't seem to have a lot of diplomacy in him.  Jeremy, though, seems to have much of the thoughtfulness that both his parents seem to have.  Added to that being the second couple and Jeremy planning from the get go to "handle" Jim Bob and I'm guessing he was smart enough to get some input from his father into dealing with the situation and they've been able to put forth a more polished and more diplomatic message.  

[SassyPants]

25 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Derrick doesn't seem to have a lot of diplomacy in him.  Jeremy, though, seems to have much of the thoughtfulness that both his parents seem to have.  Added to that being the second couple and Jeremy planning from the get go to "handle" Jim Bob and I'm guessing he was smart enough to get some input from his father into dealing with the situation and they've been able to put forth a more polished and more diplomatic message.  

Sometimes, I think Derick lets his idealism get in the way of reality-

Jeremy has lived a more diverse life and likely learned when to keep his mouth shut, as the juice is sometimes not worth the squeeze. 

[keen23]

On 6/13/2024 at 9:34 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

There are some home and garden tours in my area. I wouldn’t take them. I just don’t care. I love home and garden tours of big famous houses built by known architects. Like I love touring Frank Lloyd Wright homes. But these are just pretty houses with well maintained gardens that families live in. 
 

The one house I WILL tour if I’m ever in California is the Winchester house. I love weird old houses with weird old stories. 

We did Winchester a couple years ago. It's interesting in that it's half grand and half construction zone and 80% batshit insane. The guide got a kick out of the fact that my daughter is 4'10" and the Winchester was mostly designed for a 4'10" woman (shorter than normal stair treads for example). My daughter was used "for scale" throughout the tour.

[AnywhereButHere]

1 hour ago, keen23 said:

We did Winchester a couple years ago. It's interesting in that it's half grand and half construction zone and 80% batshit insane. The guide got a kick out of the fact that my daughter is 4'10" and the Winchester was mostly designed for a 4'10" woman (shorter than normal stair treads for example). My daughter was used "for scale" throughout the tour.

I’ve been trying for forever to get to the Winchester. I’ve had the grand talent to either have it be sold out or something comes up, and I miss out every damn time I’ve been in CA. We’re supposed to be out there again this Fall, and I have already informed husband that I will not be leaving the area until we see it. 

We’re planning on driving cross country but have very different agendas. He wants to hit every historical site while I’m looking for all the haunted and strange ones.  It’s going to be an interesting trip… 

[Kiki03910]

On 8/22/2024 at 8:37 PM, Expectopatronus said:

Has Gothard ever said why families can’t accept help from food banks etc? I get that he doesn’t want anyone receiving government help but NGO food banks would be a literal life saver for families with umpteen kids

People like him WANT suffering. It's sociopathic.

[Smee]

19 hours ago, Kiki03910 said:

People like him WANT suffering. It's sociopathic.

It's control. Like family violence on a larger scale - keep the woman (followers) exhausted and weak and they won't have the energy to question what you've convinced them to believe or to see the abuse you're inflicting on them for what it is. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

44 minutes ago, Smee said:

It's control. Like family violence on a larger scale - keep the woman (followers) exhausted and weak and they won't have the energy to question what you've convinced them to believe or to see the abuse you're inflicting on them for what it is. 

It's also about the image his followers present. Gothard was all about image. For example all of his followers were suppose to look happy all/most of the time  so that people would think they were happy all the time and see how great the lifestyle is. He also advocated that his followers should look modest and well-dressed so that people would respect them more. Parents of many children going to food banks look bad, especially if they're continuing to have blessings.

Finally, people at food banks would be a link out of the cult and Gothard was all about isolating his followers as much as possible. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

@Coconut Flan are you the admin who has been to MacArthur's church on occasion?  I can't remember.

[Coconut Flan]

Yes, we went a couple of times.

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

On 7/30/2024 at 6:07 AM, HereticHick said:

I gather you have a review copy? Since this won't be released until January. I'm surprised ARCs are even available yet.

Yes, it'a review copy.

On 7/22/2024 at 5:06 PM, Father Son Holy Goat said:

How are you reading it, I thought it wasn’t released until 2025.

 

The Feds gave Josh a free place to live.

Publishers send me copies of books and I tell them what I think.

[Rosie]

On 8/23/2024 at 1:03 PM, SassyPants said:

Yes, she absolutely will. I think doing the show helped Jinger hone this skill. And she knows her stuff, and so I can see her as someone that people might listen to. She should go to Divinity school. I was actually shocked at how well she presents the material and her POV. 

She would need an undergraduate degree in order to go to divinity school, and that will never happen.

[Coconut Flan]

I won't say never.  Jana started public community college.

[SassyPants]

56 minutes ago, Rosie said:

She would need an undergraduate degree in order to go to divinity school, and that will never happen.

She might shock us all. Frankly, I would not be surprised if she enrolled in an online undergrad program. From what she has said, she never gravitated toward children or childcare, so I’m not surprised that she has your very average number of children, 2. Whereas Jill was always shown to be invested in caring for her buddies and even requested to have Joy under her tutelage-

Jessa surprises me the most with her choices in life-

[Hasunah2]

23 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Jessa surprises me the most with her choices in life-

I find it perfectly explainable. She was the rebel child who had a hard time "keeping sweet". When Jessa rebelled, instead of being able to gain more freedom and positive attention the way Jill and even Jinger did, she got punished for it.  Essentially the early rebel lost out while  JB's golden girl and meek people pleaser Jinger could rebel later in life with different  results. Jessa just had her spirit broken and kicked out of her. 

Edited August 25 by Hasunah2

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I think Jill and Jinger also have supportive (relatively) husbands with backbones.  They both had life experiences on their own as adults before getting married.  Ben was a child who went from his parents' home to JB's rule.  He generally has seemed more passive, not pushing Jessa to question anything.  If she had ended up with someone older and more experienced, she probably would have separated herself more, too.

[SassyPants]

4 minutes ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I think Jill and Jinger also have supportive (relatively) husbands with backbones.  They both had life experiences on their own as adults before getting married.  Ben was a child who went from his parents' home to JB's rule.  He generally has seemed more passive, not pushing Jessa to question anything.  If she had ended up with someone older and more experienced, she probably would have separated herself more, too.

Very good point! I was surprised when she settled for teenage Ben.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I mean I guess I hope she's happy with her life, but I skimmed that video of the beach vacation she and Ben took when Jessa was pregnant with her most recent baby.  They looked so over each other.  I don't really care that much about her feelings but I don't actively hope she's miserable or anything...

[AussieKrissy]

14 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Very good point! I was surprised when she settled for teenage Ben.

I think an element was because it got  leaked (am I remembering correctly) they were courting or pre courting and no way back then could They  look Like heart pieces were being lost. Who knows what would have happened if it hadn’t of been leaked. Though to be fair Jess did seem pretty set on him.  
Imagine if a Titus and Lauren happened on the show. Lucky it didn’t because that marriage would have happened just for Jb to save face. 
We dont know what happened to that couple but at least a marriage that was not meant to be did not happen. A poor 19 kids and counting girl would have been stuck. 

[Jinder Roles]

On 8/23/2024 at 11:10 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s scary how well she presents herself and her beliefs. She will suck in more people to worship MacArthur. 

Yes! She kind of reminds me of Jackie Hill Perry in terms of how she speaks of her upbringing and how relatable she is before selling people the poison. It's genius marketing and quite dangerous seeing as the Vuolos are important figures in a different kind of fundamentalism (and one that's much harder to spot). 

 

One of my favourite ex-fundies is Olivia Plath. She's incredibly well-spoken and very open about her journey away from fundamentalism. One of the things she says is it's way easier to change the outside than to really dig deep and figure out why and what you believe and how it's harmful. Obviously Jinger has done a little of that but seeing as GCC and McArthur are central to her life, there's much more to be unpacked. 

I'm not expecting all fundies to leave their religion and adopt leftist politics but many of their beliefs are still abhorrent and they deserve criticism for that. I will never get over the statement against social justice that GCC released and Jeremy was a principal endorser of. Or that McArthur flouted COVID rules in the heights of the pandemic or the numerous allegations of abuse coverups. 

J&J can speak out against "purity culture" and "legalism" as much as they like but their affiliations  make me loathe of give them any praise for rejecting extremist beliefs. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

18 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

Yes! She kind of reminds me of Jackie Hill Perry in terms of how she speaks of her upbringing and how relatable she is before selling people the poison. It's genius marketing and quite dangerous seeing as the Vuolos are important figures in a different kind of fundamentalism (and one that's much harder to spot). 

 

One of my favourite ex-fundies is Olivia Plath. She's incredibly well-spoken and very open about her journey away from fundamentalism. One of the things she says is it's way easier to change the outside than to really dig deep and figure out why and what you believe and how it's harmful. Obviously Jinger has done a little of that but seeing as GCC and McArthur are central to her life, there's much more to be unpacked. 

I'm not expecting all fundies to leave their religion and adopt leftist politics but many of their beliefs are still abhorrent and they deserve criticism for that. I will never get over the statement against social justice that GCC released and Jeremy was a principal endorser of. Or that McArthur flouted COVID rules in the heights of the pandemic or the numerous allegations of abuse coverups. 

J&J can speak out against "purity culture" and "legalism" as much as they like but their affiliations  make me loathe of give them any praise for rejecting extremist beliefs. 

Tia Levings talks about going from IBLP to Calvinism like Jinger. She said it actually made things worse in some ways. 

[JDuggs]

1 hour ago, Jinder Roles said:

One of my favourite ex-fundies is Olivia Plath. She's incredibly well-spoken and very open about her journey away from fundamentalism. One of the things she says is it's way easier to change the outside than to really dig deep and figure out why and what you believe and how it's harmful. 

You need to get in on the Plathville forum. Not enough voices over there!