CarVan 15: Exposed Bras Make Baby Jesus Cry, Carlin.

[SassyPants]

7 hours ago, Kiki03910 said:

Lolol. Bless her heart. I always felt really bad for Carlin (well, all the kids, but her especially) when I watched BUB. She was so emotional and so desperate for affirmation and attention. Gil and Kelly fucking suck in all their smug narcissism.

1 of the hardest aspects of parenting is treating each child as an individual and approaching each child’s needs separately. Hard to do with 2-3, almost impossible to do with 19. The creator gave each one of us a soul and a conscience to use to discern information and to form valid opinions/decisions. I try mightily, and always fail to understand how any couple forms the opinion/decision that having 19 children (or 12) is in the best interest of everyone concerned. My logical mind can never get over the fact that there are only 24 hours/day, for everyone. 

TL;DR- is it better to have fewer children and better meet their needs or to have a greater number and provide them with little emotional support?

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Ugh, we're due with our second (and probably last) in a few months.  My husband and I have already been discussing how we'll make sure the older one has plenty of one-on-one time with each of us and occasionally having to reassure her we'll just get more ice cream instead of her having to split hers.  It would be IMPOSSIBLE with that many kids to have a real relationship with them.

[Tdoc72]

9 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Interesting that Carlin is shilling an app that tracks your fertility and the example is ‘you’re fertile and should use another form of protection or abstain’ and not ‘you’re fertile and you should work on your quiver’.

Of course it is no surprise that they do family planning but it would have been easy to turn this advertisement around while keeping the same message.

I like that the APP is non-hormonal. 😂

9 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Interesting that Carlin is shilling an app that tracks your fertility and the example is ‘you’re fertile and should use another form of protection or abstain’ and not ‘you’re fertile and you should work on your quiver’.

Of course it is no surprise that they do family planning but it would have been easy to turn this advertisement around while keeping the same message.

I like that the APP is non-hormonal. 😂

[rebeccawriter01]

3 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

I like that the APP is non-hormonal. 😂

 

Yes, those hormonal apps can be problematic. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

13 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Interesting that Carlin is shilling an app that tracks your fertility and the example is ‘you’re fertile and should use another form of protection or abstain’ and not ‘you’re fertile and you should work on your quiver’.

Of course it is no surprise that they do family planning but it would have been easy to turn this advertisement around while keeping the same message.

I would never use such an app, because I would be worried about the information being on-line or some other entity having access to it. For example, in states that have strict abortion bans, data from the app could be used to prosecute women suspected of having abortions. 

That's probably not a problem for Carlin, but just putting it out there for other FJ readers/users.

Edited August 27 by Bluebirdbluebell

[CarrotCake]

1 hour ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I would never use such an app, because I would be worried about the information being on-line or some other entity having access to it. For example, in states that have strict abortion bans, data from the app could be used to prosecute women suspected of having abortions. 

That's probably not a problem for Carlin, but just putting it out there for other FJ readers/users.

I did use an app like this when TTC, but I am lucky enough to live in a country where even most right wing conservatives do not dare touching reproductive rights at the moment.

[Melissa1977]

16 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Interesting that Carlin is shilling an app that tracks your fertility and the example is ‘you’re fertile and should use another form of protection or abstain’ and not ‘you’re fertile and you should work on your quiver’.

Of course it is no surprise that they do family planning but it would have been easy to turn this advertisement around while keeping the same message.

Carlin is clearly not quiverful and it would have been very hypocrite if she did an advertising like that. Anyway, advertisement posts are previously approved by the company, and I very much doubt that company wants to be tied to a quiverful message. If they were looking for that message, there would have chosen an *instamom* with many kids to shill the product.

[GreenBeans]

17 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

My husband and I have already been discussing how we'll make sure the older one has plenty of one-on-one time with each of us and occasionally having to reassure her we'll just get more ice cream instead of her having to split hers

Friends of ours tried to make it easier for their older kid (only two and a half years old when baby brother was born) by preparing a present for the older kid when baby brother came home from the hospital and telling her it’s a present to her from her baby brother. 😁 It obviously doesn’t replace one-on-one attention but I thought it’s a clever idea to make the older sibling have a positive association with the new baby straight away.

17 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

It would be IMPOSSIBLE with that many kids to have a real relationship with them.

This. Building an individual relationship takes time and focus. There’s no way parents of 19 or even 10 kids have that. The mere logistics of managing such a huge family will leave no time or mental space for building individual relationships. Just imagine cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, keeping track of fitting and weather-appropriate shoes and clothing, supervising homework, driving to extracurriculars… all for 19 kids! AND on top of that working to earn enough money to sustain 21 people!

There simply aren’t enough hours in the day for parents be able to build an individual, meaningful relationship with each kid with such a workload. Not even if they exploit their kids as households workers and nannies for their siblings 

Kids will get one-on-one time every few weeks or months or for special events. But that means there will be lots of pressure to make these rare events perfect. And they will not necessarily fall on days or moments when the child would have needed the support by a parent.

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

Friends of ours tried to make it easier for their older kid (only two and a half years old when baby brother was born) by preparing a present for the older kid when baby brother came home from the hospital and telling her it’s a present to her from her baby brother. 😁 It obviously doesn’t replace one-on-one attention but I thought it’s a clever idea to make the older sibling have a positive association with the new baby straight away.

This. Building an individual relationship takes time and focus. There’s no way parents of 19 or even 10 kids have that. The mere logistics of managing such a huge family will leave no time or mental space for building individual relationships. Just imagine cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, keeping track of fitting and weather-appropriate shoes and clothing, supervising homework, driving to extracurriculars… all for 19 kids! AND on top of that working to earn enough money to sustain 21 people!

There simply aren’t enough hours in the day for parents be able to build an individual, meaningful relationship with each kid with such a workload. Not even if they exploit their kids as households workers and nannies for their siblings 

Kids will get one-on-one time every few weeks or months or for special events. But that means there will be lots of pressure to make these rare events perfect. And they will not necessarily fall on days or moments when the child would have needed the support by a parent.

Sadly, the first thing all these super reproducers eliminate is the education and schooling. Which just isolates the children more, not to mention limiting their future choices. 

I never understood the idea that having more children means you cherish children more. Being a child hoarder does not make one a super parent or create a more loving family.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

@GreenBeans she is very into Ninja Turtles right now (she'll be 4 about 2 months after baby arrives) and all about how she's going to protect him from bad guys.  We picked out a ninja turtle dress up set for her so she can be ready to fight off the bad guys that are obviously an ongoing issue in suburbia Connecticut.

[Meggo]

15 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I would never use such an app, because I would be worried about the information being on-line or some other entity having access to it. For example, in states that have strict abortion bans, data from the app could be used to prosecute women suspected of having abortions. 

That's probably not a problem for Carlin, but just putting it out there for other FJ readers/users.

 I'm well past my baby makin' years - but in the throws of it- my cycles were all over the map. So I would have been happy to have the app try to track my cycle - just to throw off all the algorithms for whatever government institution wanted to keep an eye on it. Like "Good luck tracking this thing suckers!" (table flip) 

[3splenty]

1 hour ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

@GreenBeans she is very into Ninja Turtles right now (she'll be 4 about 2 months after baby arrives) and all about how she's going to protect him from bad guys.  We picked out a ninja turtle dress up set for her so she can be ready to fight off the bad guys that are obviously an ongoing issue in suburbia Connecticut.

She is going to be the best protector ever! Watch out, bad guys, there's a new superhero in town!

Congratulations, GuineaPigCourtship and family!

[Mrs. Kravitz]

15 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I would never use such an app, because I would be worried about the information being on-line or some other entity having access to it. For example, in states that have strict abortion bans, data from the app could be used to prosecute women suspected of having abortions. 

That's probably not a problem for Carlin, but just putting it out there for other FJ readers/users.

I used to use an app to track my cycles before I got pregnant with my daughter. When I went back to use it after nearly two years of no periods due to pregnancy and then breastfeeding, I found that it was totally useless because there's no "I've been pregnant/breastfeeding" setting, so it kept using the two-year gap between cycles to calculate the next one. What a design flaw. 

[Expectopatronus]

@GuineaPigCourtship My niece was steaming mad when I was pregnant with my daughter. My daughter « brought » her an Elsa doll and a Belle costume. It took my niece about 30 minutes to even look at the presents the baby brought and a few days before she was willing to look at the baby. However, they are besties now despite the 5.5 year age gap. 

[Mrs. Kravitz]

13 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

@GuineaPigCourtship My niece was steaming mad when I was pregnant with my daughter. My daughter « brought » her an Elsa doll and a Belle costume. It took my niece about 30 minutes to even look at the presents the baby brought and a few days before she was willing to look at the baby. However, they are besties now despite the 5.5 year age gap. 

Thank you for sharing! That will be about the gap between my first and my (hopefully - not actually pregnant yet) second, and people love to fear monger about "big" gaps. 

Edited August 28 by Mrs. Kravitz
Typo

[3splenty]

After I was born (and for about a month afterward), my brother would freak out if I was not swaddled for any reason.

He thought that I was glued together and he was sure the glue wasn't dry. If someone picked me up and I wasn't swaddled, he was certain my arms or legs would fall off!

We're 3.5 years apart.

Edited August 28 by 3splenty

[Coconut Flan]

4 hours ago, Mrs. Kravitz said:

Thank you for sharing! That will be about the gap between my first and my (hopefully - not actually pregnant yet) second, and people love to fear monger about "big" gaps. 

Don't sweat it. Mine are all 5 or 6 years apart.  It works out and we ran into a shocking number of people with the same gaps.  Yes, you are completely beyond the baby stage when the next one comes along, but being at my daughter's when two were in diapers at the same time and I'll take the larger gap over that any time.  Also having to move a 2 year old out of the nursery seemed too soon.  If you need grandma to stay for two weeks to help the kid adjust to the new room, it might not have been the best timing.

[fluffernutter]

3 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Don't sweat it. Mine are all 5 or 6 years apart.  It works out and we ran into a shocking number of people with the same gaps.  Yes, you are completely beyond the baby stage when the next one comes along, but being at my daughter's when two were in diapers at the same time and I'll take the larger gap over that any time.  Also having to move a 2 year old out of the nursery seemed too soon.  If you need grandma to stay for two weeks to help the kid adjust to the new room, it might not have been the best timing.

My three are about four years apart and it worked for us too. I liked having all that time before gearing up to do it again. And I liked that they had a bit of independence when the next baby came. We didn't plan it that way, but it's how it worked out. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I was hoping for a smaller gap like between me and my brother, who were 2.5yr apart and were super close growing up - but I don't mind only paying for 2 in daycare for a year or so.  It's so expensive!

[Mrs. Kravitz]

15 hours ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I was hoping for a smaller gap like between me and my brother, who were 2.5yr apart and were super close growing up - but I don't mind only paying for 2 in daycare for a year or so.  It's so expensive!

That's part of the reason for us! It would be half of my salary to pay for two in childcare. We'd need three kids to qualify for childcare assistance.

[Meggo]

On 8/28/2024 at 5:33 PM, Coconut Flan said:

Don't sweat it. Mine are all 5 or 6 years apart.  It works out and we ran into a shocking number of people with the same gaps.  Yes, you are completely beyond the baby stage when the next one comes along, but being at my daughter's when two were in diapers at the same time and I'll take the larger gap over that any time.  Also having to move a 2 year old out of the nursery seemed too soon.  If you need grandma to stay for two weeks to help the kid adjust to the new room, it might not have been the best timing.

My older sisters are two years apart. And I came five years later. 
The sister who is five years older than I am is one of my closest friends. 
The one who is seven years older - well - we struggle to get along with her. She's just SO different than us. And she's really REALLY bossy and self absorbed. Those two - who are two years apart - cannot live in the same house together. And they're in their 50s! It's ridiculous. 

Hubs is one of 10 kids. He's 7th in the line up and is closest to his second oldest sister. He is NOT close to his younger brother, his older brother works for him (but aside from that - they'd never speak and Hubs is always trying to figure out how to get out of having his brother work for him without causing a huge rift in the family). 

All that to say - even if you have kids close together in age? They might not be close. 
 

[CaptainFunderpants]

On 8/28/2024 at 9:42 AM, Mrs. Kravitz said:

Thank you for sharing! That will be about the gap between my first and my (hopefully - not actually pregnant yet) second, and people love to fear monger about "big" gaps. 

My two brothers and I have a five year gap on each side with me in the middle and I love it. I'm close with both of them, and they're close too despite the 10 year age gap. I think it'll be great for you ❤️ 

[vienna]

On 8/26/2024 at 6:20 PM, SassyPants said:

1 of the hardest aspects of parenting is treating each child as an individual and approaching each child’s needs separately. Hard to do with 2-3, almost impossible to do with 19. The creator gave each one of us a soul and a conscience to use to discern information and to form valid opinions/decisions. I try mightily, and always fail to understand how any couple forms the opinion/decision that having 19 children (or 12) is in the best interest of everyone concerned. My logical mind can never get over the fact that there are only 24 hours/day, for everyone. 

TL;DR- is it better to have fewer children and better meet their needs or to have a greater number and provide them with little emotional support?

Trying to answer your question (not knowing what TL;DR means): I don't think big families are bad per se. The way the fundis do it, its horrible mainly because of fear indoctrination through so called religion, blanket training the lack of education and the isolation from the real world and other people through homeschooling. All this is not good for kids, regardless whether 2, 5 or 19 kids are the in the house.

Big families in the setting of "good/normal" parents are expensive and exhausting but I think can be great for all. Now, I am talking about 5 kids not 19, but my dad grew up one of 5 kids and my grandma one of 12 and a friend of mine with 6 siblings. The bond the siblings have, the family get togethers, it's just great. Among many other things they all love their parents and love being in a big family. In all 3 cases, both parents have always been working. 

So in essence I think, as always whether you have a "healthy/good" family does not depend so much on the number of kids but in how the parents treat you. Having "only" two kids does not mean the kids will be happy and free from emotional trauma and the other way round. Parenting is either "good" or "bad" (sorry to use such bold words for the complicates matter), good parenting for many kids is possible. But the more there are, the harder it gets and I think 19 kids is too much in general. For everyone. But it does not mean feeling loved is impossible per se.

Edited August 31 by vienna

[ifosterkittens]

56 minutes ago, vienna said:

(not knowing what TL;DR means)

too long; didn't read 

[SoSoNosy]

That Thrive Market they keep pushing is getting horrible comments on Facebook.  Apparently, you have to sign up for a subscription before you can even see what they have, and some people say you can't cancel that.  Plus, other people said they were placed on autoship for an order they didn't even submit, just had it on a list to check other things.