Jana and Stephen 17: Married August 15

[JDuggs]

3 hours ago, postscript said:

Jill’s and Jana’s lives have gone in very different directions. They probably don’t talk that often, and I would have no expectation that Jana would ask Jill to be a bridesmaid, or that Jill would feel obligated to accept. 

The only different direction I’ve seen in their lives is that Jill publicly called JB out on his BS and Jana seemingly didn’t agree with that. Otherwise, they’re both conservative Christians, they both wear pants, they both love to garden. Their lives are still pretty similar. Jinger still has a good relationship with Jana because she hasn’t directly called out JB. 

I think the absolutely most important reason Jill and her siblings have “grown apart” is JB, with any other personality differences hardly factoring in at all. The siblings drew a line with Jill because Jill drew a line with JB. The only sibling that really publicly supports Jill is Jinger. The rest appear cordial at most. And it has to be hard on Jill that speaking the truth about her life has basically caused her to lose close relationships with the people who were most important to her. But Jana gets excused for excluding Jill because they aren’t close. Asking Jill to stand up in her wedding wouldn’t have ruined Jana’s day. It would have been an olive branch. But Jana chose her grudge over her sister.

 

[Coconut Flan]

17 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

Asking Jill to stand up in her wedding wouldn’t have ruined Jana’s day. It would have been an olive branch. But Jana chose her grudge over her sister.

We don't know any of that for fact.  It's your supposition and you're entitled to it, but perhaps it could be stated as the opinion it is.

[JDuggs]

9 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

We don't know any of that for fact.  It's your supposition and you're entitled to it, but perhaps it could be stated as the opinion it is.

You’re right. That was just an opinion. I did not discuss this with Jana or read it anywhere! I started the paragraph with “I think” and it applied to the whole paragraph.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

2 hours ago, JDuggs said:

The only different direction I’ve seen in their lives is that Jill publicly called JB out on his BS and Jana seemingly didn’t agree with that. Otherwise, they’re both conservative Christians, they both wear pants, they both love to garden. Their lives are still pretty similar. Jinger still has a good relationship with Jana because she hasn’t directly called out JB. 

I think the absolutely most important reason Jill and her siblings have “grown apart” is JB, with any other personality differences hardly factoring in at all. The siblings drew a line with Jill because Jill drew a line with JB. The only sibling that really publicly supports Jill is Jinger. The rest appear cordial at most. And it has to be hard on Jill that speaking the truth about her life has basically caused her to lose close relationships with the people who were most important to her. But Jana gets excused for excluding Jill because they aren’t close. Asking Jill to stand up in her wedding wouldn’t have ruined Jana’s day. It would have been an olive branch. But Jana chose her grudge over her sister.

 

I agree it is probably Jim Bob drawing these lines between the siblings. It will be interesting to see what happens once he’s deceased or otherwise incapacitated. 
 

I participate and run a group for women who were sexually abused as children. It is the rule that when victims speak out they are ostracized, with few exceptions. Jill’s experience is sadly common. 

[Meggo]

3 hours ago, JDuggs said:

The only different direction I’ve seen in their lives is that Jill publicly called JB out on his BS and Jana seemingly didn’t agree with that. Otherwise, they’re both conservative Christians, they both wear pants, they both love to garden. Their lives are still pretty similar. Jinger still has a good relationship with Jana because she hasn’t directly called out JB. 

I think the absolutely most important reason Jill and her siblings have “grown apart” is JB, with any other personality differences hardly factoring in at all. The siblings drew a line with Jill because Jill drew a line with JB. The only sibling that really publicly supports Jill is Jinger. The rest appear cordial at most. And it has to be hard on Jill that speaking the truth about her life has basically caused her to lose close relationships with the people who were most important to her. But Jana gets excused for excluding Jill because they aren’t close. Asking Jill to stand up in her wedding wouldn’t have ruined Jana’s day. It would have been an olive branch. But Jana chose her grudge over her sister.

 

If she lost relationships with her sisters about going public - it feels like it would be a harder loss because these are her siblings etc - but she didn't have school friends etc to fall back on. This family was - very likely - her friend group as well. So she lost that familial relationship and some of the friendships too. (or maybe she wasn't close to siblings - hard to be close to THAT many people...) 

[KnittingOwl]

11 hours ago, Throw said:

Jill lost her daughter in April, Jana only got engaged in June 

I doubt they planned that whole wedding in two months. I think they were planning the wedding before that and just got “officially” engaged in June. 🤷‍♀️

[IReallyAmHopewell]

10 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Someone up thread sleculated that JB paid for the wedding and probably stipulated that Jana couldn't include Jill in her wedding. My guess is it's either that or Jana assumed Jill wouldn't want to because of Isla's death still being so recent. 

I think J-B just sold it to People lol

[nvmbr02]

On 8/21/2024 at 1:18 PM, NachosFlandersStyle said:

Derick needs to hem his pants. Or buy a different inseam, I guess.

Re: family size: I've had an assload of people tell me that their very catholic parent or grandparent was one of 10,11, or 12 kids. I can't think of someone mentioning a higher number. Twelve seems to be an upper limit for most families in that position. 

All 4 of my grandparents are/were very catholic. They all had between 9-12 siblings except my maternal grandmother who was an only child. One of my grandparents had 4 kids, the other 6. My mom's parents had 4 kids, but my mom was the only one to have children and she had three.  My dad's parents had 6 kids and they all had between 1 and 4 children, with 3 being the most common number. With my siblings and cousins 3 has so far been the most kids, with 2 being the most common. most of the family would still consider themselves Catholic, going to Mass at least 1 day a week. Ironically, my sister is trying for #4 now and she left the church years ago (doesn't attend any church)  though she does follow several large families on tik tok and instagram. 

[SassyPants]

I have very little doubt, and yes it is only speculative, that JB is the one who told Jana, “no Jill.” What are the odds that Jana has all her similarly aged sisters, the core group of workers, so to speak, and only friends they each were allowed to really have, would ask every sister but Jill (even the 1 living in CA) to be in her wedding? I don’t believe Jana would be that cruel. JB, OTOH, very easy to believe. He is vile.

Occam’s Razor all the way on this one.

Same reason that all the ILs were invited except Cathy (DD’s mom)- JB is a spiteful, small man. He better hope the creator is in a very forgiving mood when he hits the pearly gates.

[viii]

I think people assume JB has more power than he actually does lol 

[Expectopatronus]

49 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I have very little doubt, and yes it is only speculative, that JB is the one who told Jana, “no Jill.” What are the odds that Jana has all her similarly aged sisters, the core group of workers, so to speak, and only friends they each were allowed to really have, would ask every sister but Jill (even the 1 living in CA) to be in her wedding? I don’t believe Jana would be that cruel. JB, OTOH, very easy to believe. He is vile.

Occam’s Razor all the way on this one.

Same reason that all the ILs were invited except Cathy (DD’s mom)- JB is a spiteful, small man. He better hope the creator is in a very forgiving mood when he hits the pearly gates.

It’s possible that JB dictated the wedding party list. If that’s what happened and I was in Jana’s shoes, my response would be «  bleep it; I don’t care that much. It’s the last decision he gets to force on me and then Stephan and I will be in another state and away from him ». It’s also possible that Jana picked bridesmaids right after Isla’s death and knew that Jill needed space to grieve. It’s equally possible that they aren’t super close anymore and it didn’t make sense to have Jill. Given that they took a picture together they don’t hate each other but that’s really all we know. 
If it was JB’s decision to exclude Jill, I hope she and Stephan pick Jill and Derrick as godparents to the first baby. A nice little « up yours » to dear ole dad. 

[justmy2cents]

My thought is that Jana had a problem with how public Jill and Derick were with the conflict with JB and the relationship is strained now. Here’s Jill’s reply to why she wasn’t a bridesmaid. 
 

 

Spoiler

 

[SassyPants]

Based on personalities shown on the program and comments from the siblings about one another, and in some cases what the kids themselves had said, out of the 4 oldest daughters, only 1 of them was not a people pleaser or quiet. Yes, Michelle did say Jana was very active as a pre-schooler, but the only daughter/sister/self identified as a spit fire and handful was Jessa. Remember, “don’t mess with Jess?” I cannot see Jana saying anything abrasive or firmly stating anything to JB. And I think most of those girls did and said what they had to as to not ruffle JB’s feathers. They had the “keeping sweet” part down pat. Jinger even described that her mission in writing her book was to expose Gothardism in a way that was not disrespectful to her parents and family. AND THE MOST IMPORTANT PART IS THE REASON WHY. Per Jinger, she knew that if she placed equal (or any) blame on her parents, she would lose the connection to her siblings and possibly not be able to help them deconstruct if they wanted to do so. Their father’s vindictive personality was obviously well known.

Jill, with the support of DD and likely his family, has done the work of separating truth from fiction where her father and Gothardism are concerned. She has sought professional help and set boundaries. She has been dealing with the fallout for years. Unfortunately, her father has not done the work that he clearly needs to do. Jill knows the only person and response that she can control is her own. Where her family is concerned she is a class act and shows very mature and measured responses. 

In terms of JB, sometimes the truth hurts.

[viii]

53 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

My thought is that Jana had a problem with how public Jill and Derick were with the conflict with JB and the relationship is strained now. 

I agree with this. Jana has given zero indication that she thinks and believes any differently to what her parents do. I think Jana is drunk on the kool-aid and didn’t ask Jill because she didn’t want her. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

We’ll see what some time and physical distance from the Duggar compound does for Jana. 

[just_ordinary]

There many possibilities as to why Jill wasn’t a bridesmaids. JB calling the shots isn’t a bad guess.
I do think though that closeness isn’t dictated just because you seem to fit on paper. Yes, they might share interests and experiences and are close in age. It is still possible that they don’t feel as if they have much in common but their genes.

Jana is allegedly shy. So having her families dirty secrets out in the open, while I absolutely support Jill, could have been very hard and embarrassing for her. Being known as the sister of Josh and all the shady things her father did and does is not a good feeling. You get judged for your relations. 
I also think that the „theological“ rift is deeper. I say „theological“ because I don’t think that there is a real base for many things fundies believe in.

And while I view D&J as crazy fundamentals and don’t see much difference to what I know of Jana, there are significant differences. Just because I see them as minor in the bigger picture doesn’t mean Jana must think so as well.

Anyway- a sibling relationship is the longest relationship one has (if you don’t go no contact or there is an early death). Naturally they will have ups and downs. You are closer to some than others and even that can change. Sometimes a healthy and good relationship can also mean having a more distant one. If you think that it will easily be a 60+ year relationship- just having little contact for 15 years isn’t really that much. People change, people get hurt, people rekindle….. who knows what the future holds for them.

[SassyPants]

13 hours ago, viii said:

I think people assume JB has more power than he actually does lol 

He controls the money (and most likely all the businesses and business equipment) and in a large family of uneducated people, many of whom who are procreating at lightening speed, that gives JB a great deal of power. 

If you and your kids need a place to live and food on the table and you have a limited, individual avenue for procuring such, you much more readily fall in line with the cash provider. Either that or you have to work really hard to overcome the deficits. 

[viii]

21 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

He controls the money (and most likely all the businesses and business equipment) and in a large family of uneducated people, many of whom who are procreating at lightening speed, that gives JB a great deal of power. 

If you and your kids need a place to live and food on the table and you have a limited, individual avenue for procuring such, you much more readily fall in line with the cash provider. Either that or you have to work really hard to overcome the deficits. 

I'm not arguing that JB doesn't have power, because he definitely does. However, I don't think he's organizing Jana's wedding and vetting who she can have as a bridesmaid. I just don't think he would care that much. He's lost a lot of control when it comes to his adult children. I think he's more focused on the younger children and more focused on keeping things under control. 

I think Jana didn't want Jill as a bridesmaid because she's neck-deep with her parents and didn't like Jill exposing all of their secrets. 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I tend to think they just don't talk as much/aren't as close anymore.  Probably the rift with JB was at the heart of that, but I doubt he would care if Jill was a bridesmaid.  Honestly a show of family support and unity would probably be welcome after the book.  People who are pleasers will find they gel less well with others once they stop working hard to please, just because they're now holding space for their own personality.  Who know how Jill was pruning her personality to be close to all her sisters?  Some drift would be normal in that situation.

[SassyPants]

29 minutes ago, viii said:

I'm not arguing that JB doesn't have power, because he definitely does. However, I don't think he's organizing Jana's wedding and vetting who she can have as a bridesmaid. I just don't think he would care that much. He's lost a lot of control when it comes to his adult children. I think he's more focused on the younger children and more focused on keeping things under control. 

I think Jana didn't want Jill as a bridesmaid because she's neck-deep with her parents and didn't like Jill exposing all of their secrets. 

I think he does care, not about Jana or the wedding, but about losing face with having Jill be a part of an event that many people would be attending. JB is a narcissist who needs to be in control of all and the center of attention. Jill publicly humiliated him and his way of life. There is no way he would publicly reward her by allowing her to serve in a special role in a family event. He NEEDS to be the final authority on all things family related. And he needs others (family members who might think of crossing him and his friends) to see that HE is large and in charge and means business. In essence, it was a way to both humiliate Jill and send a message to the rest of them of how he can make their lives miserable too.

I would really like to know how he treats Josh and Anna behind closed doors. Let’s face it, THEY* are the individuals who publicly destroyed the Duggar name and easy gravy train$. Josh is the person who has most negatively impacted the dynasty and coffers. Does JB even acknowledge that??

* I do not blame Josh’s transgressions on Anna, but I’m betting JB does. Remember, in their culture they believe the neck (woman) controls the head (man).

[JDuggs]

I didn’t think JB played a direct role in the bridal party, but Jill’s response that “it should always be the bride’s decision” makes me wonder if she thinks JB advised Jana not to include Jill. So I definitely think there’s some merit to that argument. I still think the final decision was Jana’s though. Maybe in Jill’s mind, it feels less hurtful if she thinks that Jana is being manipulated by JB, so it’s not really Jana excluding her.

I still 100% believe that if Jill had never publicly said anything negative about JB, Jana would have included her even if they weren’t close to each other. I can understand not wanting to be around people who are nasty, manipulative, whiners, etc., but Jill still strikes me as a nice person. If one other adult sister hadn’t been included either, the “not close” reason would have made more sense to me. 

The shifting relationships of the older sisters is kind of interesting. Jessa declared that she and Jinger were BFFs, but they don’t seem to come off like that too much now. Due to her matron of honor status, it appears that Jana considers Jessa her closest sister. Joy has stated that she and Jinger have become much closer.  I think both Jana and Joy consider themselves closer to Abbie than any of their actual sisters. And then there’s Jill. Original BFF Jana due to closest in age. Close to Jessa because of “season of life” reasons, marriage and kids together, “Counting On” together, Megyn Kelly interview together. Original sistermom and matron of honor to Joy. Now only publicly supported by Jinger. 

 

[Kiki03910]

22 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

We’ll see what some time and physical distance from the Duggar compound does for Jana. 

I'd like to be hopeful. Sadly, I've seen time and distance not change much in my own secular but fucked up family. But I do hope!

[indianabones]

Jana and Stephen are honeymooning at an all-inclusive resort in St. Lucia. Someone in the Duggars Snark subreddit found a photo he posted of them on the (very recognizable) beach.

[AussieKrissy]

Some new pics. Jim boob plate in hand hanging out with the men folk 

Spoiler

 

[Jinder Roles]

2 hours ago, indianabones said:

Jana and Stephen are honeymooning at an all-inclusive resort in St. Lucia. Someone in the Duggars Snark subreddit found a photo he posted of them on the (very recognizable) beach.

Seems to have been removed because I'm not seeing any St. Lucia posts. Ugh, no idea why but it really irks me when fundies come to my region...especially after the whole MedicCorps thing.