Trump 68: A Dangerous Criminal And Weird Old Man Who Is In Serious Mental Decline

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

1 hour ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

Unfortunately this isn't back in the day and the "culture" around guns (how ever you call it) is vastly different from somebody's dad carrying a shotgun in his truck. Now guns are marketed as toys and we have parents buying military type weapons for their kids for christmas. Not to mention there's a vastly different culture around raising children now AND what appears to be a downward spiral in mental health in children (and possibly all levels?). It's a pervasive problem in the US that's not isolated to TX or FL. 

----

I think the gun issue would start to resolve itself if POC would start buying guns and open carrying everywhere it's legal. I think all of a sudden "people" would be real interested in more gun regulation. 

We know that. Explaining the difference and how it has gone completely sideways. No shit it's not just FL or TX. But they're the 'stereotype' w this issue, and FL was pejoratively mentioned first. As far as "scary BIPOC" with guns, that was the 80s mentality. So, I don't think that will "fix" the problem. One would have thought kids being killed would stop it, sadly no. But God forbid you read a frickin book someone doesn't agree with! Or even see a damn cover. With. two. Penguins. (Just one example) Obviously culture has changed, good and bad, including parenting styles.

I feel like I'm touching the poo so back to work...

[noseybutt]

3 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

 

I think the gun issue would start to resolve itself if POC would start buying guns and open carrying everywhere it's legal. I think all of a sudden "people" would be real interested in more gun regulation. 

NO. The responsibility for fixing the gun problem is not on POC. 
 

Edited Tuesday at 07:17 PM by noseybutt

[FiveAcres]

17 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

NO. The responsibility for fixing the gun problem is not on POC. 
 

It would make it even more dangerous to be a POC around a poorly trained police officer.

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

2 hours ago, FiveAcres said:

It would make it even more dangerous to be a POC around a poorly trained police officer.

Exactly. No brainer there.

I don't want extended family or anyone else's killed. (more of them, anyway)

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

I don't think it should be POC's responsibility to fix it but there is definitely  a white supremacist/racist/whatever other term that's appropriate? maga? subset of the world who think all that "freedom" really applies to them and only them.  If it helps them or what they want then it's a "natural right" and "freedom"  - and if so -  then others not in their group should exercise these rights and freedoms. 

Any person who decides to exercise this "right" to guns should not have any further fears - it's legal. At some point somebody is going to have to push  back on this idea that certain people shouldn't pursue these "rights" that other people in USA have  - and exercise freely and blatantly in people's faces. 

If people aren't exercising their god given American rights out of fear of police or societal retribution -then I would suggest that the people who are perpetuating that fear have won.

The fact of racist, violent, and discriminatory practices by police is a different issue and a dangerous one as well. 

It is what it is I suppose. I'll stop.

 

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

3 minutes ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I don't think it should be POC's responsibility to fix it but there is definitely  a white supremacist/racist/whatever other term that's appropriate? maga? subset of the world who think all that "freedom" really applies to them and only them.  If it helps them or what they want then it's a "natural right" and "freedom"  - and if so -  then others not in their group should exercise these rights and freedoms. 

Any person who decides to exercise this "right" to guns should not have any further fears - it's legal. At some point somebody is going to have to push  back on this idea that certain people shouldn't pursue these "rights" that other people in USA have  - and exercise freely and blatantly in people's faces. 

If people aren't exercising their god given American rights out of fear of police or societal retribution -then I would suggest that the people who are perpetuating that fear have won.

The fact of racist, violent, and discriminatory practices by police is a different issue and a dangerous one as well. 

It is what it is I suppose. I'll stop.

 

I'll just say this 

Constitutionally God given American rights 

ftfy

Yea, I know US history (and the symbolism, Pledge, etc ) and used to go to church, but we are and were founded on religious freedom and not just Christianity. As much as the fundies would like it to be... and supremacists suck, obviously 

[fraurosena]

Lol, Kamala's comment during the debate really got under his tangerine skin. 

 

Full text under spoiler because it's a full on grumpy Trumpy rant:

Spoiler

Trump: I don't think I've ever said this before. So we do these rallies. They're massive rallies. Everybody loves, everybody stays till the end. By the way, you know, when she said that, well, your rallies people leave. Honestly, nobody does. And if I saw them leaving, I'd say, and ladies and gentlemen make America great again and I'd get the hell out, ok? Because I don't want people leaving. But I do have to say so I give these long sometimes very complex sentences and paragraphs but they all come together. I do it a lot. I do it with raising cane. That story. I do it with the story on the catapults on the aircraft carriers. I do it with a lot of different stories. When I mentioned Doctor Hannibal Lecter. I'm using that as an example of people that are coming in from Silence of the Lambs. I use it. They say it's terrible. So they say so I'll give this long complex area for instance that I talked about a lot of different territory… You know, for a town hall, there's a lot of people but the fake news likes to say, the fake news likes to say, oh, he was rambling. No, no, that's not rambling. That's genius. When you can connect the dots. Now, now, Sarah, if you couldn't connect the dots, you got a problem. But every dot was connected and many stories were told in that little paragraph

 

[noseybutt]

12 minutes ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I don't think it should be POC's responsibility to fix it but there is definitely  a white supremacist/racist/whatever other term that's appropriate? maga? subset of the world who think all that "freedom" really applies to them and only them.  If it helps them or what they want then it's a "natural right" and "freedom"  - and if so -  then others not in their group should exercise these rights and freedoms. 

Any person who decides to exercise this "right" to guns should not have any further fears - it's legal. At some point somebody is going to have to push  back on this idea that certain people shouldn't pursue these "rights" that other people in USA have  - and exercise freely and blatantly in people's faces. 

If people aren't exercising their god given American rights out of fear of police or societal retribution -then I would suggest that the people who are perpetuating that fear have won.

The fact of racist, violent, and discriminatory practices by police is a different issue and a dangerous one as well. 

It is what it is I suppose. I'll stop.

 

So I agree that MAGA has put a racist spin on American gun culture. Kyle Ritter can shoot in kill and be acquitted in a way a black man would. But the bolded----ugh. No. That's like saying women who refuse to walk alone at night to avoid rape have let the rapists win.

Yuck.

Women are not going to solve the problem of rape.

POC are not going to solve the gun problem.

[Antimony]

Hey, so, while I think it's obvious that there is no onus or expectation for POC to lead the charge for gun control, this is not speculative politics. This is already US history. This has already happened. A racist spin on gun legislation is now new. It is over 50 years old. 

Gun control has been wielded in direct response to the Black Panthers being armed. I am always surprised folks don't know this. Even the NRA was in on it. More here. And here (this last article is particularly useful).

Edited yesterday at 12:39 AM by Antimony

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

42 minutes ago, Antimony said:

Hey, so, while I think it's obvious that there is no onus or expectation for POC to lead the charge for gun control, this is not speculative politics. This is already US history. This has already happened. A racist spin on gun legislation is now new. It is over 50 years old. 

Gun control has been wielded in direct response to the Black Panthers being armed. I am always surprised folks don't know this. Even the NRA was in on it. More here. And here (this last article is particularly useful).

That was my point earlier re: 80s mentality (1980s)

[noseybutt]

1 hour ago, Antimony said:

Hey, so, while I think it's obvious that there is no onus or expectation for POC to lead the charge for gun control, this is not speculative politics. This is already US history. This has already happened. A racist spin on gun legislation is now new. It is over 50 years old. 

Gun control has been wielded in direct response to the Black Panthers being armed. I am always surprised folks don't know this. Even the NRA was in on it. More here. And here (this last article is particularly useful).

I am aware of that history and long term it did not result in effective gun control.

 I saw a meme today that said something like, “We are living in the most difficult section of someone’s AP government exam in 2053.” (Does AP have a government exam? I thought it was US history.) Anyway, I do think that the Trump/MAGA years are going to be their own “thing” in history. There are many distinctions about the movement but some of it is the co-mingling of the racism and gun rights and the removal of abortion rights/women’s health care and Christian nationalism. On this point I completely agree with @watchingthetirefireburn that gun rights are intertwined with racism.

But would a group like the Black Panthers open carrying lead to new gun laws, even temporarily? I just don’t think so. Because guns rights are the most important thing at the moment.

Like, even with 2 assassination attempts on Trump, there’s no movement. At all.

Edited yesterday at 01:44 AM by noseybutt

[Antimony]

20 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

I am aware of that history and long term it did not result in effective gun control.

If you consider California to be a heavily gun controlled states (and most agree), then I think it's notable that the Mulford Act is still law. So is the '68 Gun Control Law. There could be an argument is it effective, but it is aligned with most "common sense" gun control talking points (esp. on selling to felons and interstate gun sale restrictions). There is an argument that these are passed for the wrong reasons and that they align extremely tightly with the criminalization of marginalized populations  (to which I agree) but these are foundational gun control laws that would not have otherwise existed.

20 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

 I saw a meme today that said something like, “We are living in the most difficult section of someone’s AP government exam in 2053.” (Does AP have a government exam? I thought it was US history.)

Yes. They have AP Gov, APUSH and AP World History. 

Edited yesterday at 02:05 AM by Antimony

[noseybutt]

2 hours ago, Antimony said:

If you consider California to be a heavily gun controlled states (and most agree), then I think it's notable that the Mulford Act is still law. So is the '68 Gun Control Law. There could be an argument is it effective, but it is aligned with most "common sense" gun control talking points (esp. on selling to felons and interstate gun sale restrictions). There is an argument that these are passed for the wrong reasons and that they align extremely tightly with the criminalization of marginalized populations  (to which I agree) but these are foundational gun control laws that would not have otherwise existed.

Yes. They have AP Gov, APUSH and AP World History. 

CA has more control laws than other states but does that make it a heavily gun controlled state? The nation has pulled so far to the right that I would say no because SCOTUS does not allow.

[AnywhereButHere]

13 hours ago, noseybutt said:

 I saw a meme today that said something like, “We are living in the most difficult section of someone’s AP government exam in 2053.” (Does AP have a government exam? I thought it was US history.) Anyway, I do think that the Trump/MAGA years are going to be their own “thing” in history. There are many distinctions about the movement but some of it is the co-mingling of the racism and gun rights and the removal of abortion rights/women’s health care and Christian nationalism.

Son is a middle/high school history teacher (just began his first teaching job - yay!), and we talk a lot about how these past few years are going to be covered in a classroom and viewed by future students. It’s wild to be in the middle of what is eventually going to show up in future curricula as a turning point in our history. Hopefully as a lesson in how we avoided descending into facism…

[Alisamer]

 

On 9/17/2024 at 11:40 AM, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

Unfortunately this isn't back in the day and the "culture" around guns (how ever you call it) is vastly different from somebody's dad carrying a shotgun in his truck. Now guns are marketed as toys and we have parents buying military type weapons for their kids for christmas. Not to mention there's a vastly different culture around raising children now AND what appears to be a downward spiral in mental health in children (and possibly all levels?). It's a pervasive problem in the US that's not isolated to TX or FL. 

I agree that overall the culture is different, but the fact is that out in the country it is still similar to before, where guns, for many people, are tools. Just like their pickup truck is. And I think that many of those people have been convinced that "Dems want to take away your guns!" is true, by the ones who think guns and trucks are status symbols and part of their personalities.

I'm hoping the "hard working country boy" types come to see how they are being lied to and used, frankly. Because I think most of those people are not horrible, they're just underinformed. I'd bet many of them aren't the trump flag waving crazies driving jacked up trucks, open carrying guns everywhere, and attending rallies. They're the ones who drive a beat-up truck that's actually used to haul stuff, have a rifle a shotgun and maybe a pistol that they either use on the farm or take hunting, and work long hours then come home and see half an hour of Fox News while dinner is finishing up before Wheel of Fortune comes on.

Some of those people have been radicalized, I'm sure, but I bet a lot of them are just believing what they're told, even though they normally would shake their heads at the idea of Trump, a soft-handed rich city boy, understanding anything about their life.

2 hours ago, AnywhereButHere said:

Son is a middle/high school history teacher (just began his first teaching job - yay!), and we talk a lot about how these past few years are going to be covered in a classroom and viewed by future students. It’s wild to be in the middle of what is eventually going to show up in future curricula as a turning point in our history. Hopefully as a lesson in how we avoided descending into facism…

It's exhausting living through history. I'd hoped we'd see stuff like world peace and flying cars and teleporters. Instead we get stupidity and insanity.

[bea]

My teenage kids say that they really don't LIKE living through unprecedented times and they'd kind of like to have things be boring for a while.