Erin and Chad 12: Not Keeping Up with the Bateses

[SassyPants]

9 minutes ago, ifosterkittens said:

JD Vance was not talking about people like Erin. She and Chad are Christian, have children, republicans, "pro-life", they are his people. Michael and Brandon are also ok by JD Vance once his wife clarified he was only talking about women who elect not to have children, not those who struggle with infertility.

All ISB but I do think it is possible Erin struggles with her fertility not being as easy as she expected. She had a few miscarriages in the beginning before the blood disorder was discovered, then lost an ovary and wasn't sure if she would be able to have another child after her fifth (I think, not positive of the timing). I imagine she was pleasantly surprised when she got pregnant with her sixth and thrilled it was a boy. So much of her identity is wrapped up in being a fertile woman. Then losing an ovary on top of a blood disorder that resulted in a few miscarriages may have felt like a slap in the face. 

I'm not boo-hooing for Erin's fertility struggles. I do think it is possible she is struggling with she feels she has done everything right (she followed the rules her parents gave her, believes what they believe, married the good godly guy, lives a godly life, doesn't use birth control like some of her sisters, doesn't wear pants/shorts like other sisters etc) and still has health challenges. I think it's likely Erin feels the possibility to have more children was taken from her or at least compromised. Now I would argue that's just how the cookie crumbles. Michael falls in Erin's camp with the adhering to the parents' beliefs, marrying the godly guy, and yet she has no children. Fertility is mainly a biological thing; it isn't a reflection of mortality or character. 

Yes, Erin has six kids, but knowing it is unlikely she can't have ten (if that is something she wanted) might be difficult for Erin to reconcile. Jill Rod seems to be struggling with the reality setting in that her six-year-old is her last child. Jill is 45, has 13 children and it's highly unlikely she'll have another, but it she seems to be unwilling to let go of that possibility she could have one more. 

Struggles with fertility???? Erin has been married for coming up on 11 years and has 6, healthy children and has had at least 3 miscarriages. That means that she has been pregnant 9 times in 11 years. While she did have a medical issue that was causing an inability to sustain a pregnancy, that problem has clearly been solved. She does not have a “fertility” problem, especially when you factor in the loss of an ovary+ (per Erin, who knows if that is true or not).

Just as a side note, My daughter was married in December of 2013, and is in her late 30s (husband is 46). They have had 1 pregnancy and 1 child.

Erin is just not accepting of God’s path at all. She could take a few lessons on acceptance and grace from her older sister.

 

Edited September 2 by SassyPants

[ifosterkittens]

23 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Struggles with fertility???? Erin has been married for coming up on 11 years and has 6, healthy children and has had at least 3 miscarriages. That means that she has been pregnant 9 times in 11 years. While she did have a medical issue that was causing an inability to sustain a pregnancy, that problem has clearly been solved. She does not have a “fertility” problem, especially when you factor in the loss of an ovary+ (per Erin, who knows if that is true or not).

Just as a side note, My daughter was married in December of 2013, and is in her late 30s (husband is 46). They have had 1 pregnancy and 1 child.

Erin is just not accepting of God’s path at all. She could take a few lessons on acceptance and grace from her older sister.

I should have clarified what I imagine Erin perceives to be issues/struggles with fertility. Not actual struggles with fertility. I agree Erin is not accepting God's path. 

[vienna]

Erin changed a lot. Her behaviour and her life. There is bad blood between her an a lot of her siblings she used to be close with. From an objective point of view her life is not as good as the one most of her married sister have (financially especially) which must be hard to acknowledge both for her and Chad. As far as I know all the kids got the same amount of money for bub. So they had a financial basis and made nothing to show for of it. 

What can be said is that a lot of snarkers notice  that there has been a major change in how Chad behaves and the relationship dynamics between him an Erin. I don't know if Chad is physically abusive but I think it is fair to wonder about it given all the circumstances. He seems at least emotionally abusive. Erin is definitely not happy, far away from her family, does not do Videos anymore and is not teaching piano. Does she even have a piano?

Chad changed and seems to have turned into the "I tell you what to do, you submit" kind of guy. In general I think Chad is the one who changed for whatever reason, became more fundi and Erin is forced to be way more submissive than she had to be.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, vienna said:

Erin changed a lot. Her behaviour and her life. There is bad blood between her an a lot of her siblings she used to be close with. From an objective point of view her life is not as good as the one most of her married sister have (financially especially) which must be hard to acknowledge both for her and Chad. As far as I know all the kids got the same amount of money for bub. So they had a financial basis and made nothing to show for of it. 

What can be said is that a lot of snarkers notice  that there has been a major change in how Chad behaves and the relationship dynamics between him an Erin. I don't know if Chad is physically abusive but I think it is fair to wonder about it given all the circumstances. He seems at least emotionally abusive. Erin is definitely not happy, far away from her family, does not do Videos anymore and is not teaching piano. Does she even have a piano?

Chad changed and seems to have turned into the "I tell you what to do, you submit" kind of guy. In general I think Chad is the one who changed for whatever reason, became more fundi and Erin is forced to be way more submissive than she had to be.

Yes, I believe they still have a piano because she teaches Carson. Her BFF. 

[Kiki03910]

On 9/1/2024 at 10:16 AM, Ashley Ocean said:

I hope Bill does have a proper will. I know of 5 (of my) relatives who have passed without wills since 2021. One was an attorney! It seems like a task that a lot of people put off. It makes things a lot more complicated when there is no will.

So much this! My bf and I wrote our wills when we purchased a house together back in our early 30s. My favorite provision was the (largely aspirational) $10k for my sister to take in our cats and spoil them.

[Expectopatronus]

If Erin wanted more kids and is grieving the reality that this likely won’t happen, then I do feel for her; a lost dream is a lost dream. I feel for Michael too. While I don’t think IFB or IBLP is a good environment for anyone to grow up in, it’s painful to long for children and know it won’t happen. 
Did Chad change towards Erin after they found out that she likely can’t have 10 or more kids or before? 

[marmalade]

3 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

If Erin wanted more kids and is grieving the reality that this likely won’t happen, then I do feel for her; a lost dream is a lost dream. I feel for Michael too. While I don’t think IFB or IBLP is a good environment for anyone to grow up in, it’s painful to long for children and know it won’t happen. 
Did Chad change towards Erin after they found out that she likely can’t have 10 or more kids or before? 

There seemed to be a shift around the time Erin got sick. Nothing huge, and she said Chad did everything. But maybe he became resentful? I can't say why, but there was a change. 

[Cupcake79]

On 9/3/2024 at 12:33 AM, ifosterkittens said:

All ISB but I do think it is possible Erin struggles with her fertility not being as easy as she expected. She had a few miscarriages in the beginning before the blood disorder was discovered, then lost an ovary and wasn't sure if she would be able to have another child after her fifth (I think, not positive of the timing). I imagine she was pleasantly surprised when she got pregnant with her sixth and thrilled it was a boy.

She had four kids when she lost 1,5 of her ovaries. Så both Finley and William have been labeled miracle babies.

[Melissa1977]

4 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

Did Chad change towards Erin after they found out that she likely can’t have 10 or more kids or before?

He looked really worried when Erin got pregnant after her serious illness. I was pretty evident that she was the one who wanted a megafamily. 

4 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

If Erin wanted more kids and is grieving the reality that this likely won’t happen, then I do feel for her; a lost dream is a lost dream. I feel for Michael too.

I'm sorry, but I think grieving because "God just gave me 6 kids" is not fair. Not even in a quiverful family. 

Edited September 4 by Melissa1977
Spelling

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

6 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

If Erin wanted more kids and is grieving the reality that this likely won’t happen, then I do feel for her; a lost dream is a lost dream. I feel for Michael too. While I don’t think IFB or IBLP is a good environment for anyone to grow up in, it’s painful to long for children and know it won’t happen. 
Did Chad change towards Erin after they found out that she likely can’t have 10 or more kids or before? 

That's an interesting question I hadn't thought about.... We know his dad was involved with IBLP and cover-ups, so he's pickled in the Kool aid. We talk about attire being one way to seem more "mainstream" to get more followers... Wonder if Chad was projecting a regular, "equal," persona for the show.  

Edited September 4 by LongTimeLurkerOG
Words.... Clarification

[gobucks]

I always got the impression ERIN was the one that changed after the health crisis. She went more extreme and he, like always, did what she wanted by becoming more of a leader. 

Edited September 4 by gobucks

[LongTimeLurkerOG]

On the Batesessssss subreddit, someone posted the video about their move. Much like here there was discussion; someone mentioned his arm across her was.. interesting, etc. 

So, I watched most of the 8 long minutes lol Chad talks the whole time and when Erin does, he talks over her. His arm is angled across her. She rubs his arm (just to clarify lol) most of that time. I'll just say it is odd and different from the TV show and other interactions we've seen. 

The "prayer request " is definitely a grift for housing .. wanting"very clear, sign, clarity " on their next move lol translation, they'll go where someone offers a place! and I think they want to stay in Florida. (they can go, and take Taliban Dan w them!) 

1!1!!!11eleventy IS a lot of kids. Duh. I mean, c'mon lol The "vacation" sounded like everyday just at the beach. The location would be the only "refreshing" part, IMO

Edited September 4 by LongTimeLurkerOG
Specifying lol

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, LongTimeLurkerOG said:

On the Batesessssss subreddit, someone posted the video about their move. Much like here there was discussion; someone mentioned his arm across her was.. interesting, etc. 

So, I watched most of the 8 long minutes lol Chad talks the whole time and when Erin does, he talks over her. His arm is angled across her. She rubs his arm (just to clarify lol) most of that time. I'll just say it is odd and different from the TV show and other interactions we've seen. 

The "prayer request " is definitely a grift for housing .. wanting"very clear, sign, clarity " on their next move lol translation, they'll go where someone offers a place! and I think they want to stay in Florida. (they can go, and take Taliban Dan w them!) 

1!1!!!11eleventy IS a lot of kids. Duh. I mean, c'mon lol The "vacation" sounded like everyday just at the beach. The location would be the only "refreshing" part, IMO

They are very different compared to 10 years ago. She was usually the one doing all the talking. She was always very bubbly and social. But Chad just talks on and on and she has to listen. It’s so weird how much they’ve changed in the past few years. 

[nolongerIFBx]

18 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

They are very different compared to 10 years ago. She was usually the one doing all the talking. She was always very bubbly and social. But Chad just talks on and on and she has to listen. It’s so weird how much they’ve changed in the past few years. 

She's acting now how she did during the courtship, even the baby voice. She seemed to be her for a little bit there and now she's back on the IBLP koolaid.

[rebeccawriter01]

21 hours ago, LongTimeLurkerOG said:

On the Batesessssss subreddit, someone posted the video about their move. Much like here there was discussion; someone mentioned his arm across her was.. interesting, etc. 

So, I watched most of the 8 long minutes lol Chad talks the whole time and when Erin does, he talks over her. His arm is angled across her. She rubs his arm (just to clarify lol) most of that time. I'll just say it is odd and different from the TV show and other interactions we've seen. 

The "prayer request " is definitely a grift for housing .. wanting"very clear, sign, clarity " on their next move lol translation, they'll go where someone offers a place! and I think they want to stay in Florida. (they can go, and take Taliban Dan w them!) 

1!1!!!11eleventy IS a lot of kids. Duh. I mean, c'mon lol The "vacation" sounded like everyday just at the beach. The location would be the only "refreshing" part, IMO

What stood out to me was that she mentions Tori and says how hard the move to Florida was and how it is hard to be away from Tori. She is clearly saying it was not her idea or her intention to move there. He doesn't look at her or toward her during this. Then you have him a few minutes later saying God gave them this wonderful opportunity to move to Florida and that it is so wonderful (sunshine, roses, and puppies or goats). It wasn't BUB brand for them in that moment, as he was clearly disregarding her feelings.

His attitude (not sure if it is changed) has been coming out more in their videos. A few months ago they did the one where she had to come up with one word for each sibling. It was clear who she is feuding with because she came up with something generic and moved on fast. Chad spoke on Zach but did it with the same tight face and sort of partial frown that Erin used when talking about Carlin. 

Edited September 5 by rebeccawriter01

[rebeccawriter01]

21 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

They are very different compared to 10 years ago. She was usually the one doing all the talking. She was always very bubbly and social. But Chad just talks on and on and she has to listen. It’s so weird how much they’ve changed in the past few years. 

My theory is that when the show began (BUB) the producers asked her, Alyssa, and Zach to speak more during the couch interviews and such. Producers and editors would realize while they were establishing the show that they wanted to focus on Gil and Kelly's 19 kids not the random people they married. When the show first started she was the darling of the "cast" in that she was willing to talk, film in her home, etc. Later Carlin took on that role, but at first it was Erin. In the first episodes they have the baby shower for Zach and Whitney. Half of it was literal close-ups on Erin crying silent tears and lamenting that she should have been having a baby at the same time, one quarter was Trace's car accident, and the final quarter was Whitney and Zach. 

Producers were clearly going with "characters" for all of them. Whitney was picked as the one who was eager to be a part of the family and willing to do anything. Zach was the lovestruck husband who would do anything for her. Michaela was portrayed as devout and interested in getting that ring from Brandon. When she surprised him on that trip to Texas, he refers to her a good liar from having fooled him. She becomes defensive that she didn't lie - almost like he might change his mind about her if she wasn't holy enough. Chad was portrayed as hard working and committed (not Zach level devotion) to Erin. It seemed to play well when Erin would ask (later tell) him to do things for her family so he became a hen-pecked character. But the interesting thing to note is that it appeared to be for the cameras only. Based on different blogs and social media, he wasn't doing that much behind the scenes. 

I think 10 years ago or so Erin relished her role as the first Bates to get married and one of the first to give birth. It gave her clout and presented her as the expert. In the next few weddings and even courtships, she was shown as offering unsolicited advice. The exception was Josie who was shown as pushing aside all advice to get herself down that aisle as fast as she could go. Erin was trying to influence wedding locations, dress selections, and even how Michael should get her pedicure and manicure. When her sisters started getting married and having children, they relied on her less and less for advice. I think that she felt the impact of her role changing. 

When she got COVID and there were complications, she became less able to be the Boss Lady. And maybe to her disappointment, things didn't fall apart. Carlin and Whitney managed to boutique through the pandemic and beyond without her help. Katie, Nathan, Lawson, and Trace all started relationships without her matchmaking. Her sisters were popping out kids left and right without the added pressure of missing more than one and a half ovaries. Her sisters married rich or ended up with good deals on social media and began living lives she wouldn't have advised. Yet everyone seemed to appreciate them for it. That niche of being the family decorator vanished. The sisters' husbands were starting their own businesses or working for each other (Kelton and Bobby) or living via the 'gram (Evan). Her husband "owned" his own construction business but primarily did discounted jobs for church members (and per my relatives never called anyone back who inquired about hiring him). 

Erin clearly got the princess treatment growing up because of music. She didn't have to cook or do major cleaning chores because her task was teaching piano to the younger kids. I think adult Erin is struggling with her family because she isn't that princess now. She and Chad were supposed to be the new poster couple for the IBLP. In the early seasons all the girls talked about wanting a man like Chad. Even the Duggar girls said things like that when there were appearances on 19KAC. Even in fundy circles he's not that much of a standout now. He works odd jobs, isn't licensed, can't afford adequate housing (three bedrooms for six kids and two adults in a rental is borderline but better than they were in Tennessee). He was supposed to be this talented woodworker. She was a talented musician. He paints the occasional piece of furniture and she made a few vanity cd's. Instead of the IBLP they have really become the poster children for not living up to your potential. 

I think both of them have been having an identity crisis. Chad's not the hardest worker now. She's not the most talented. With over half of them married, her being the first bride hardly matters since the weddings since then have been better planned. Her business is selling prayer cards but her sisters and sister-in-law are earning more profits and employees/coworkers. Erin is isolated and dangerously close to losing her title as having the most kids if Tori, Whitney, or Alyssa get pregnant again. Even the blood clotting disorder that was presented on the show as some horrible thing she had fought against and overcome has become overshadowed for her because most of her sisters have the same disorder. I don't know how they will redefine themselves, but selling prayer cards and raising animals at the Florida barndiminium rental probably wasn't ever going to get them where they wanted to go - if they even know where that is.

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

On 9/4/2024 at 2:23 AM, Melissa1977 said:

I'm sorry, but I think grieving because "God just gave me 6 kids" is not fair. Not even in a quiverful family. 

I totally agree. I think that six kids is a big family. It's also ridiculous to assume she can't have more kids at this point. She has had two kids since she lost an ovary and most of a second one. Her baby is less than a year old. It wouldn't surprise me if she has more kids. 

People equating her situation with her older sister's situation makes me furious. She has 6 kids and her sister has none. I don't like either of them, but that is just stupid and tacky. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Honestly you would think Erin would be grateful she might be slightly less fertile. She puts a baby in a closet for fucks sake. They obviously don’t have the room or the money for a family with 19 kids.

[ifosterkittens]

9 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Honestly you would think Erin would be grateful she might be slightly less fertile. She puts a baby in a closet for fucks sake. They obviously don’t have the room or the money for a family with 19 kids.

Erin is the third Bate's child, so she has to remember the poor years. Having lived that I can't imagine why she would want to keep having more children and subject them to it. That said I expect her to keep having more children is she can. She's had two since the ovary surgery, so it seems likely she'll have more, she's only 33. 

[Cupcake79]

On 9/2/2024 at 7:12 PM, LurkerOverThePond said:

Do you remember what they said and why did it feel off?

I re-watched the video. What stands out to me is how it begins. There's no intro, no "hello, we have to share a difficult thing, this is what happened", just boom, Erin telling she fell watering a plant. Very poorly made. It might have been just that that made me think there's something weird going on. I'm not sure.

Other than that I agree with several comments about Chad and Erin changing in the past years. I have a feeling that Chad resents Erin, maybe for wanting more children? I know it sounds strange since having a lot of kids is what fundies do. I think that Chad was genuinely worried about Erin when pregnant with Finley or William. Maybe he resents her for wanting to have more kids and putting herself in danger? Can he really say he doesn't want any more kids? That's not godly in their view of things. I don't know. Anyway, Chad is still damn good looking! Not that it has anything to do with anything...

[HereticHick]

I've always been mystified by Eric & Chad's move to Florida--they said it was because Chad was going to "help" with a church--and then basically never spoke of/showed the church again.

What happened? Was Chad involved in a church plant that failed?  Did he actually intend to be a pastor of a church?  Did they have a falling out with the church? 

[SassyPants]

18 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

I've always been mystified by Eric & Chad's move to Florida--they said it was because Chad was going to "help" with a church--and then basically never spoke of/showed the church again.

What happened? Was Chad involved in a church plant that failed?  Did he actually intend to be a pastor of a church?  Did they have a falling out with the church? 

Did Chad ever show or speak about having preacher aspirations? Wasn’t he always known for his construction skills? 

What is interesting to me about this brand of Christianity is the apparent disregard for hard work and perseverance. Gil and KG, JB Duggar, most of the Duggar males, some of the Bates males…it’s almost as if they believe that working to support themselves and their families is a sin. Conversely, IMO, if you do not use your creator endowed talents to better yourself, your family and your community, you are dishonoring the Lord-

[JermajestyDuggar]

49 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

I've always been mystified by Eric & Chad's move to Florida--they said it was because Chad was going to "help" with a church--and then basically never spoke of/showed the church again.

What happened? Was Chad involved in a church plant that failed?  Did he actually intend to be a pastor of a church?  Did they have a falling out with the church? 

They seem to love their Florida church. I don’t know if that’s the church they would help with. They just seem to be regular church goers. But I wouldn’t be shocked if the church asks Chad for free labor for the church. They also moved to be close to Chad’s grandpa in Florida. And now that he passed, they don’t have him keeping them there. 

[marmalade]

I thought Erin played the piano there, but I could be misremembering.

[AussieKrissy]

Does anyone watch this lady? Something about her reminds me (physically) of Erin. I watch her through my jaded view of fundamental religion and so far. I can’t help but like her. She seems so lovely and level headed. 
Even though I have heard some horror stories from  strict orthodox Jewish people and the repression of women. 
I often fall down the rabbit holes of how great the Amish people present and then read horror stories. Just like I thought the Duggars were lovely at first. 
Well that was my train of thought for the evening lol. Now back to your regular scheduling lol