Can somebody explain Kosher to me?

[ilovetchotchkes]

I grew up in rural Middle America , but I now live in an Orthodox Jewish area of Chicagoland. Growing up, there was exactly one Jewish guy in my small town (NY transplant who got a job as a school district psychologist) and I don't think he was terribly observant. The stores in my little town didn't have an ethnic section, much less Jewish section. Where I live now, there are grocery stores, Kosher Subways, Kosher KFC, delis, bakeries etc that I would imagine make life easier.

I think I was more or less contemplating how challenging it would be to strictly observe certain diets in areas where the majority don't follow those rules.

I have another question though...from what I understand, Halal has a lot of similar dietary restrictions as well. But in what ways do Halal and Kosher contrast?

I live way out in the 'burbs of Chicago, and I was driving to Skokie to get my meat but then Trader Joes started carrying chicken breasts, and now I only sojourn up there for Passover/stuff I can't get down here like lamb. (I eat kosher meat because I'm an ex vegetarian and I have LOT of cognitive dissonance about meat, and I'd like to think it was killed humanely).

Halal and Kosher are similar. Halal is less restrictive than Kosher because some animals that are Halal are not Kosher. From what I've heard, most, if not all Kosher meat is Halal, but not the other way around. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... etary_laws

[Peas n carrots]

I live way out in the 'burbs of Chicago, and I was driving to Skokie to get my meat but then Trader Joes started carrying chicken breasts, and now I only sojourn up there for Passover/stuff I can't get down here like lamb. (I eat kosher meat because I'm an ex vegetarian and I have LOT of cognitive dissonance about meat, and I'd like to think it was killed humanely).

Halal and Kosher are similar. Halal is less restrictive than Kosher because some animals that are Halal are not Kosher. From what I've heard, most, if not all Kosher meat is Halal, but not the other way around. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... etary_laws

Interesting, thanks! Yes we're pretty close to Skokie and Devon Ave which is Halal central (I probably just gave up my location LOL).

Have you been to Tel Aviv Pizza (It's on California...I want to say near the Touhy intersection)? I've been dying to go there, but as a non-Jew I'm a bit tentative about going in and ordering up food!

[ilovetchotchkes]

Interesting, thanks! Yes we're pretty close to Skokie and Devon Ave which is Halal central (I probably just gave up my location LOL).

Have you been to Tel Aviv Pizza (It's on California...I want to say near the Touhy intersection)? I've been dying to go there, but as a non-Jew I'm a bit tentative about going in and ordering up food!

I have not, because I have heard that its AWFUL. Taboun (sp?) is expensive but fabulous. Their schwarma is ZOMG delicious.

And its not like they'll be "ZOMG LOOKIT THE GOY", a LOT of people these days who aren't Jewish eat Kosher because they consider it healthier or "cleaner".

[treemom]

I grew up in rural Middle America , but I now live in an Orthodox Jewish area of Chicagoland. Growing up, there was exactly one Jewish guy in my small town (NY transplant who got a job as a school district psychologist) and I don't think he was terribly observant. The stores in my little town didn't have an ethnic section, much less Jewish section. Where I live now, there are grocery stores, Kosher Subways, Kosher KFC, delis, bakeries etc that I would imagine make life easier.

I think I was more or less contemplating how challenging it would be to strictly observe certain diets in areas where the majority don't follow those rules.

I have another question though...from what I understand, Halal has a lot of similar dietary restrictions as well. But in what ways do Halal and Kosher contrast?

Alcohol restrictions is a big one. And lots and lots of food have that in it.

[terranova]

Just wanted to say this is a fascinating thread to someone who lives in a very non-Jewish country. Thank you!

[emmiedahl]

The thing to remember about weird Jewish practices is that they generally fall under 'themes', like 'making the mundane sacred' or 'carving out sacred space in your life' or 'things that are different should be kept separated, even good things'. There is usually a reason similar to one of these for the core practice, even if the tradition itself has been modified throughout the centuries to be more complicated than it needs to be.

And, like someone else said, Jews do not think everyone should obey these rules, and many of us obey them imperfectly ourselves.

As for being kosher in a non-Jewish area, you cannot buy kosher meat in my area, and our 'Jewish foods' section of the store is a box of three year old matzo crackers thrown in between the Thai curries and the Indian spices.

[Mommy22alyns]

Just wanted to say this is a fascinating thread to someone who lives in a very non-Jewish country. Thank you!

Or a very non-Jewish area of the US! Agreed!

[defrauding]

While we're on the topic, can someone explain to me why meat-free things would have to be labeled as Kosher. I'm just curious because sometimes I see Kosher lollipops or other candy, but I don't understand how it could possibly be non-Kosher.

Others have explained it already, but the labeling also lets you know if the item is parve -- that is, made without meat or dairy ingredients. That's important if, say, you're bringing candy or dessert to a meal with meat.

(Eggs and fish count as parve, though, so it doesn't quite mean the same thing as vegan.)

[thoughtful]

What holiday is it again? :lol:

[emmiedahl]

Matzo and matzo meal are completely necessary for fried matzo and also matzo ball soup!

[thoughtful]

Matzo and matzo meal are completely necessary for fried matzo and also matzo ball soup!

Well, OK. :)

But really -- it does seem a bit . . . spring-oriented. :lol:

No latke mix (maybe they'd eschew such prepared junk at WF!), no chocolate gelt, no doughnuts?

Heck, you think there would at least be some oil!

[emmiedahl]

Yes, one definitely needs gelt and sufganiyot, although those would be in different sections of the store. I actually cannot find a box of matzo meal in my town that is not way past its use-by date. My husband suggested that I crumble up Ritz crackers and I might try it...

And latke mix is sacrilege, I tell you. Only fresh homemade ones will do!

[TheJewAmongUs]

My favorite Chinese restaurant went kosher and it's just awful now. I've never even had pork there, and I can live without shrimp, but they must have been putting some awesome animal parts in their orange chicken, egg foo young, maybe even the veggie chow mein. Man, it's such a shame...

I remember that when Oreos finally stopped using lard in their filling, one of the reasons they cited was people look for the kosher symbol because they perceive it as healthier. Some brands may seek the certification for that reason as well.

[ilovetchotchkes]

My favorite Chinese restaurant went kosher and it's just awful now. I've never even had pork there, and I can live without shrimp, but they must have been putting some awesome animal parts in their orange chicken, egg foo young, maybe even the veggie chow mein. Man, it's such a shame...

I remember that when Oreos finally stopped using lard in their filling, one of the reasons they cited was people look for the kosher symbol because they perceive it as healthier. Some brands may seek the certification for that reason as well.

I miss hostess cupcakes and ding dongs. Little debbie just simply isn't the same!

[TheJewAmongUs]

Aren't Drake's cakes kosher? Maybe there's a black market out there for them.

[pomology]

What holiday is it again? :lol:

Well, my parents did put matzo meal in their latkes...

[FaustianSlip]

On the kosher/halal thing, halal also doesn't restrict the eating of shellfish or rule out mixing meat and dairy, so something could be totally halal in that the meat was killed in a halal fashion, but still not kosher because the meat is in a cheeseburger or it's a dish with shrimp in it. We have a number of halal restaurants where I am in China, and while I love eating at them because I know I'm not going to have random pork encounters, while the Xinjiang (Chinese Muslim) places are totally safe, the Turkish place, for instance, has a lot of seafood dishes, as well as dishes with cheese, so there's still some stuff I can't eat. And technically, meat slaughtered according to halal guidelines still isn't kosher because of supervision issues.

Personally, I don't eat pork or shellfish and try to avoid mixing meat and dairy, but I'm still working on the last one. I'd like to get the self discipline together to just go vegetarian when I can't get kosher meat, but in a place like China where there's meat in everything, that's tough. I think when I get married/have kids, I'll probably opt to keep a kosher kitchen, not because I think God will strike me dead if I don't or something, but because as a community practice, I like the idea of any Jew (theoretically) being able to eat in my kitchen, and I also think the general concept of kashrut, namely that we should think about what we're putting in our bodies, is a good one.

[Peas n carrots]

Yes, thanks everyone for all the info.

Coincidentally, last night my husband brought home a book for me titled "Simply Jewish" which is a FAQ book for people who know nothing.

I've heard of Taboun and that it's really good and nearby as well. Tel Aviv Pizza seems to have hit and miss reviews.

[treemom]

On the kosher/halal thing, halal also doesn't restrict the eating of shellfish or rule out mixing meat and dairy, so something could be totally halal in that the meat was killed in a halal fashion, but still not kosher because the meat is in a cheeseburger or it's a dish with shrimp in it. We have a number of halal restaurants where I am in China, and while I love eating at them because I know I'm not going to have random pork encounters, while the Xinjiang (Chinese Muslim) places are totally safe, the Turkish place, for instance, has a lot of seafood dishes, as well as dishes with cheese, so there's still some stuff I can't eat. And technically, meat slaughtered according to halal guidelines still isn't kosher because of supervision issues.

Personally, I don't eat pork or shellfish and try to avoid mixing meat and dairy, but I'm still working on the last one. I'd like to get the self discipline together to just go vegetarian when I can't get kosher meat, but in a place like China where there's meat in everything, that's tough. I think when I get married/have kids, I'll probably opt to keep a kosher kitchen, not because I think God will strike me dead if I don't or something, but because as a community practice, I like the idea of any Jew (theoretically) being able to eat in my kitchen, and I also think the general concept of kashrut, namely that we should think about what we're putting in our bodies, is a good one.

And something could be kosher but if you use vanilla made with alcohol in it it isn't Halal. I tried to buy some local items that would be Halal here and it was impossible.

[Sarah]

I've lived in a few areas with very small Orthodox communities, and it's a challenge, but you can still keep kosher! In college, I didn't go out to eat (other than other Orthodox people's houses), but I lived in a house with a bunch of friends and we all loved cooking big meals together. Some ingredients were hard to find, but we either made them ourselves (like pesto) or substituted. I now live in NJ where there are tons of kosher options, but I still don't go out to eat all that much because I got used to cooking for myself. End of the day, if it matters to you and you love it, then you do it--the same way you deal with a child who has a food allergy or the fun gestational diabetes I have right now!