"Damn immigrants need to learn proper english!"

[Anise]

Yes, I want to learn French and possibly German now that I think about it. And of course I would like to learn Spanish as well.

You know, if you're serious about learning these languages, I do know of some good language learning websites that could help you that I could pass on to you. You don't have to take a class to learn a language.

[Guest Anonymous]

Ooooh, I find the mooning smiley - must post once more for old times sake. Then close window quickly so the teenager cannot see and call me immature.

I'm so naive I thought that was some sort of potato-head character.... :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

You know, if you're serious about learning these languages, I do know of some good language learning websites that could help you that I could pass on to you. You don't have to take a class to learn a language.

Thanks Anise. My employer will offering a basic course in Spanish, so I'm going to take advantage of that. I am interested in websites you mentioned. If you don't mind, can you give me the links?

[Anise]

Thanks Anise. My employer will offering a basic course in Spanish, so I'm going to take advantage of that. I am interested in websites you mentioned. If you don't mind, can you give me the links?

Well, for Spanish, there are these:

Podcasts:

http://radiolingua.com/shows/spanish/co ... k-spanish/

http://radiolingua.com/shows/spanish/show-time-spanish/

http://www.notesinspanish.com/

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/new ... 31558.html

Websites:

http://www.studyspanish.com/index.htm

http://mld.ursinus.edu/~jarana/Ejercicios/

http://www.lingolex.com/spanish.htm

http://www.elearnspanishlanguage.com/

http://www.spanishunlimited.com/

http://www.learn-spanish-online.de/

http://www.spanicity.com/

http://www.mansionspanish.com/

http://www.123teachme.com/

http://languages4free.com/

http://sites.google.com/site/links4languages/spanish

Blogs (these made it to the top 100 language blogs for 2009):

http://www.transparent.com/spanish/

http://www.spanish-only.com/

http://spanish-podcast.com/

I also really recommend Destinos, which is a telenovela designed to teach Spanish: http://www.learner.org/resources/series75.html

This website has a collection of various free language courses covering a broad range of languages: http://www.word2word.com/course.html

I also recommend these websites for broad tips:

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html

http://www.fluentin3months.com/

I hope this helps. Language learning can be frustrating and disappointing at times, but it is also really rewarding. Buena suerte!

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks. I'll check them out.

[Conuly]

Mango Languages or Rosetta Stone may be free for you through your public library system. LangMaster has very few languages, but Spanish is one of them, and it's totally free.

[Guest Anonymous]

I've heard good things about Rosetta Stone, and will look into it. Thanks.

[Anise]

I've heard good things about Rosetta Stone, and will look into it. Thanks.

Only if you can get it at a library or something. Elsewise, it is more expensive than what it is worth. Like seriously hundreds of dollars. You could check your library for Pimsleur too. It's a pretty good program, but it's also really expensive.

[Terrie]

High German - oh Lord, don't even go there. I had a child in my class whose mother was German. She worked as a lunchtime supervisor, and I used to go and chat to her on the playground. She was from Hildesheim, in the north, and spoke High German. She used to moan like crazy about my horrible Bavarian (South German, low German) accent, and try to teach me better ways. (I picked up my spoken German in Bavaria, you see.)

According to her, Bavarians did not speak proper German!

A friend of mine speaks Austrian German -- her mother was Austrian, and she often spent summers with her grandmother in Austria. She thinks High German is harsh and ugly.

[Guest Anonymous]

I have Bristish friends who now live in Austria and speak Austrian German. It sounds beautiful but not at all germanic to my untrained ear. I like to watch German language films, and the language feels nice and familiar, whereas Austrian German definitely feels like a never-to-be-grasped holiday language to me... :)

[Terrie]

I'm trying to learn Swedish at the moment -- my grandmother is Swedish and it's the part of my heritage I feel most connected to. The consonants are largely the same as English and many words are similar, as is the grammar. In fact, it's considered one of the easiest languages for an English speaker to learn. But the vowels are kicking my butt. There are nine vowels, with both long and short forms, and some of them are treated as the same sound in English. Ahhhhh!!!! Also, I kinda suck at languages. At the same time, the mildly tonal aspect is fairly easy, because I grew up hearing people speak English with a Swedish accent. But the vowels will be the death of me.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm trying to learn Swedish at the moment -- my grandmother is Swedish and it's the part of my heritage I feel most connected to. The consonants are largely the same as English and many words are similar, as is the grammar. In fact, it's considered one of the easiest languages for an English speaker to learn. But the vowels are kicking my butt. There are nine vowels, with both long and short forms, and some of them are treated as the same sound in English. Ahhhhh!!!! Also, I kinda suck at languages. At the same time, the mildly tonal aspect is fairly easy, because I grew up hearing people speak English with a Swedish accent. But the vowels will be the death of me.

I speak some Swedish and understand a lot more than I speak. The extra vowels are lovely and distinct when you get the hang of them, I promise. I can only count 8 though, including, a,e,i,o,u å, ä and ö... have I lost one?

I learned though immersion while living there, but I give myself a refresher course reading the labels in IKEA sometimes.... :D

[Wolfie]

Then you throw in the Low German that the Amish speak and some Mennonites (used to be more before WWII) speak.

[Terrie]

I speak some Swedish and understand a lot more than I speak. The extra vowels are lovely and distinct when you get the hang of them, I promise. I can only count 8 though, including, a,e,i,o,u å, ä and ö... have I lost one?

I learned though immersion while living there, but I give myself a refresher course reading the labels in IKEA sometimes.... :D

As in English, the occasional y. I've gotten to the point where if I really listen and concentrate, I can catch the vowels that are really close to each other most of the time, but my accent is still terribly thick. So I guess I won't be visiting Sweden any time soon. ;)

[Soldevi]

At the moment, I am having some academic Swedish classes in university. I understand quite a lot, I can watch theatre plays, news and tv programmes in Swedish but I am terribly bad if I have to say something is Swedish. Swedish studies started when I was in the seventh grade (mandatory in Finland and very, very controversial and hot topic). And I wish they would teach "real" Swedish in Finland, not Finland Swedish which sounds a little peculiar and a bit different vocabulary.

Six months to go before I can go and see Kristina från Duvemåla in Svenska Teatern...

[Artemis]

Soldevi, am I correct in thinking that the reason mandatory Swedish studies in Finland are really controversial is because of the political situation, and the issue of Suomi self-determination?

[Soldevi]

It is a really political issue and its roots are both deep and complicated. Now, I have studied Swedish more than I have been expected to and I don't really have a strong opinion against 'forced Swedish' as it is called here. I think the biggest thing is that there is this 5 % minority of Swedish speaking Finns and yet every Finnish speaking Finn have to study Swedish through primary school to university level education because both Swedish and Finnish languages have the same legal status and authorities in bilingual municipalities must offer their services in either language. If the minority has increased into 8% of inhabitants, then the municipality must become bilingual. Of course, this is also for Finnish speaking minorities but usually it is the other way around.

Now, we have this tiny tiny minority of Swedish speaking Finns and majority of them can speak Finnish like mother tongue (32 % according to a Folktinget poll, 45 % think their Finnish is fluent or almost fluent) and some 20 % can't speak or can barely speak Finnish. Yet we have to teach this one language to the rest 95 % of population. And not only that but also maintain huge (and expensive) Swedish administrative structures at all levels (tv and radio channels, education quotas etc.) I can give you an example. In order to graduate from polytechnics or university, all students are required to pass an examination in Swedish on a level that enables them to be employed as civil servants in bilingual offices and communities (and Finland Swedish in Finnish language). This is mandatory. But only a minority interested of language can really communicate in Swedish after graduation. So it really doesn't serve the purpose.

I have lived my whole life in purely Finnish speaking areas and even though I have wanted to learn Swedish, I haven't ever had an opportunity to use it in everyday life here. So I can barely give directions in Swedish or tell basic things of my life. My written Swedish is a bit better and I can read Swedish (and Norwegian) somewhat fluently. And funny thing, my husband comes from a border town and have visited Sweden almost daily when he lived there but his Swedish is worse than mine. Border towns in Sweden side use Finnish, too. :D

So, we have this tiny purely Finnish speaking areas like towns near Russian border where Sweden is not spoken at all but there are a lot of Russian tourists and tourism keeps these small towns alive. People want to learn Russian from early on and schools would like to offer it but they cannot because of this strong language act we have. Pupils cannot choose another language instead of Swedish and not all are multilingual talents nor have time to study several languages (English usually starts in third grade and Swedish in seventh grade, third language in upper secondary school). This leads to anger towards Finland Swedes and their 'cherished status'.

Like I said, a hot topic :)

Edit: upper secondary, not secondary upper...

[pomology]

¡Hola geniebelle! Supongo que ahora hablas español perfectamente ¿correcto? Porque es muy, muy, muy fácil aprender una lengua nueva. Si tienes el deseo, no necesitas mucho tiempo. También, supongo que no hablas con un acento, porque hablando con un acento es terrible y los que hablan una segunda lengua con un acento son estupidos y no tratan a aprender la lengua. Pero, no sé con que acento hablas. ¿Un acento español? ¿Un acento mexicano? ¿Un acento guatemalteco? ¿Un acento chileno? O quizás mi acento favorito un acento argentino. Por favor, respondes a mi mensaje en español porque yo sé que puedes. Si no eres una idiota y no debes visitar un país hispanohablante nunca. Pero yo sé que entiendes y hablas perfectamente.¡Un beso!

[RR88]

¡Hola geniebelle! Supongo que ahora hablas español perfectamente ¿correcto? Porque es muy, muy, muy fácil aprender una lengua nueva. Si tienes el deseo, no necesitas mucho tiempo. También, supongo que no hablas con un acento, porque hablando con un acento es terrible y los que hablan una segunda lengua con un acento son estupidos y no tratan a aprender la lengua. Pero, no sé con que acento hablas. ¿Un acento español? ¿Un acento mexicano? ¿Un acento guatemalteco? ¿Un acento chileno? O quizás mi acento favorito un acento argentino. Por favor, respondes a mi mensaje en español porque yo sé que puedes. Si no eres una idiota y no debes visitar un país hispanohablante nunca. Pero yo sé que entiendes y hablas perfectamente.¡Un beso!

I feel like I should start writing stuff in Hebrew or Arabic...

[Terrie]

¡Hola geniebelle! Supongo que ahora hablas español perfectamente ¿correcto? Porque es muy, muy, muy fácil aprender una lengua nueva. Si tienes el deseo, no necesitas mucho tiempo. También, supongo que no hablas con un acento, porque hablando con un acento es terrible y los que hablan una segunda lengua con un acento son estupidos y no tratan a aprender la lengua. Pero, no sé con que acento hablas. ¿Un acento español? ¿Un acento mexicano? ¿Un acento guatemalteco? ¿Un acento chileno? O quizás mi acento favorito un acento argentino. Por favor, respondes a mi mensaje en español porque yo sé que puedes. Si no eres una idiota y no debes visitar un país hispanohablante nunca. Pero yo sé que entiendes y hablas perfectamente.¡Un beso!

What's funny is that even though my Spanish is limited to " No hablas español" I can catch the general meaning. Maybe because I live in the Southwest, where 1 in 3 households speaks Spanish, and has been here since before this was the US.

[pomology]

I feel like I should start writing stuff in Hebrew or Arabic...

Well, I chose Spanish because she mentioned a desire to learn Spanish and was given resources. Hence, she should already be speaking it. Also, it is the language I am best at, despite the pesky desire to Italianize everything that comes from taking Italian. Closely related languages are so easy to learn, but so difficult to keep separate. :(

Also, as Hebrew and Arabic are in different alphabets, they aren't even remotely accessible to somebody who can't read those alphabets, whereas in Spanish you can at least figure out the cognates.

×בל ×× ×™ ×והבת עברית גמקן. ×בל ×–×” קשה לדבר בעברית ×›×™ ×× ×™ רוצה ל×מר כל דבר בספרדית ×›×™ עכשיו ×× ×™ יודעת וספרדית יותר טוב מעברית ××£ על פי שלמדתי עברית כל ×”×—×™×™× ×©×œ×™ ורק למדתי ספרדית לתשע שני×.

وانا احب اللغة العرابية لكن لا اتذكر كثيرا.

Sorry for the thread-jack. It just drives me crazy when people who don't know anything about languages blabber on about it. Having studied more languages than my fair share, I believe that my opinion (expecting people, even those who are proficient at language learning, to become fluent in a foreign language before visiting a country where that language is spoken is completely absurd and expecting them to be able to speak in a flawless accent is even more absurd) is far more accurate.

[Terrie]

Thread hijack away. I personally find it awesome. The wide base of knowledge and experience is why I love FJ.

[Austin]

I recently asked for advice on FJ about choosing language learning software and got lots of helpful responses:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8424

[RR88]

Well, I chose Spanish because she mentioned a desire to learn Spanish and was given resources. Hence, she should already be speaking it. Also, it is the language I am best at, despite the pesky desire to Italianize everything that comes from taking Italian. Closely related languages are so easy to learn, but so difficult to keep separate. :(

Also, as Hebrew and Arabic are in different alphabets, they aren't even remotely accessible to somebody who can't read those alphabets, whereas in Spanish you can at least figure out the cognates.

×בל ×× ×™ ×והבת עברית גמקן. ×בל ×–×” קשה לדבר בעברית ×›×™ ×× ×™ רוצה ל×מר כל דבר בספרדית ×›×™ עכשיו ×× ×™ יודעת וספרדית יותר טוב מעברית ××£ על פי שלמדתי עברית כל ×”×—×™×™× ×©×œ×™ ורק למדתי ספרדית לתשע שני×.

وانا احب اللغة العرابية لكن لا اتذكر كثيرا.

Sorry for the thread-jack. It just drives me crazy when people who don't know anything about languages blabber on about it. Having studied more languages than my fair share, I believe that my opinion (expecting people, even those who are proficient at language learning, to become fluent in a foreign language before visiting a country where that language is spoken is completely absurd and expecting them to be able to speak in a flawless accent is even more absurd) is far more accurate.

I believe ל×מר should be לומר, and לתשע ×©× ×™× should be תשע שני×. Sorry for nitpicking. On the other hand, my Arabic spelling isn't the greatest:

[attachment=0]Languages.jpg[/attachment]

[icecreamycakeycake]

I have a difficult time with language. I studied french for four years in HS, and became highschoolfrench fluent. I could at a basic level, read, write, converse (and a few times even dreamed) in french. It never really came naturally, I was always in translation mode. I did not continue studying in college and lost it all over the years, other than being able to get the jist by readingby knowing the meaning of words. Fast forward to my late 20's when I decided for funzies to take an italian class because my friend was teaching it at UW. Everytime she asked me a question in italian I would answer in french without even realizing it. My brain scrambled everything into french as I was learning italian, but still couldn't carry a conversation in french. It was very bizarre.